Over 15,000 old bottles and other artifacts found in ballarat

[just starting]

The Peter Lalor / Highlander hotel is currently and was a very popular watering hole and is less than a stone`s throw from there. Maybe they and other hotels that surround the area used the site as a dump or it may have been a council rubbish site. I`ll keep onto it to find out more. Another interesting thing is there is that 1/2 a mile up the road where bunnings now is, used to be a company called vic claypipe. My late mate used to work there about 40 years` ago. The towering big brick chimney , just like the one at selkirk bricks up the road , still stands at the front of the site in the carpark on creswick road. My question is , did some of the clay artifacts come from there and how long ago was vic claypipe founded ? Another thing for me to ask someone who knows their ballarat history. Last year someone showed me a copy of an artist`s sketch of ballarat when there were barely any buildings in the town. The sketch was done around the mid 1800`s and was done before any real infrastructure was in place. The bloke who showed me used to work in a business who had access to some of these sketches , that was established about 120 years` ago . I can`t remember exactly how long ago, but about the early 1900`s or just before. The business has shut their doors ,now ,but i occasional run into the son of the original owner and then next time i see him , i`ll make some enquiries.

Ward69 , you are an old ballarat boy. You might have some answers for us.

FOZ

 

[Ward69]

The Peter Lalor / Highlander hotel is currently and was a very popular watering hole and is less than a stone`s throw from there. Maybe they and other hotels that surround the area used the site as a dump or it may have been a council rubbish site. I`ll keep onto it to find out more. Another interesting thing is there is that 1/2 a mile up the road where bunnings now is, used to be a company called vic claypipe. My late mate used to work there about 40 years` ago. The towering big brick chimney , just like the one at selkirk bricks up the road , still stands at the front of the site in the carpark on creswick road. My question is , did some of the clay artifacts come from there and how long ago was vic claypipe founded ? Another thing for me to ask someone who knows their ballarat history. Last year someone showed me a copy of an artist`s sketch of ballarat when there were barely any buildings in the town. The sketch was done around the mid 1800`s and was done before any real infrastructure was in place. The bloke who showed me used to work in a business who had access to some of these sketches , that was established about 120 years` ago . I can`t remember exactly how long ago, but about the early 1900`s or just before. The business has shut their doors ,now ,but i occasional run into the son of the original owner and then next time i see him , i`ll make some enquiries.

Ward69 , you are an old ballarat boy. You might have some answers for us.

FOZ

Thanks Foz. For reminding me. When I turn 18. I had 2 pots of beer at each pub in Ballarat, I never stop drinking. It took me 2 days.

 

[Ward69]

Thinking back the blue light discos was held in the old site. Around the small block there was a pub on each corner. There apart of the yarrawee creek under it as well This is why it took them 20years to find the money pull it down , I bet if you washed the dirt you find more the act facts.

 

[just starting]

It is Ballarat Heritage weekend and i went on the gaol tour after work ,today .

A very interesting place. Most of the original gaol is gone ,but there are still significant parts of it left.

I spoke to the gentleman featured in the following story and he said that not even he is allowed in those tunnels under the gaol ,now. Our guide told us there are 3 corridors built one on top of the other deep under the School of Mines Ballarat ( SMB Fed Uni ,Ballarat ,as it is now known ) ,which is what stands on the old gaol grounds.
Very interesting stories were told about this site. Our guide pointed to the ground and told us there were originally 13 prisoners buried under our feet. They were hanged ,beheaded and their bodies faced to the prison walls so they never saw freedom. Of the 13 bodies buried ,only 5 were found and exhumed and the rest they couldn`t find when the School of Mines was being built.

2 blokes were hanged together and both had the same length of rope ,but one was taller than the other and hit the ground feet first and the other one missed the ground by inches. I think these may have been the two who robbed and murdered the rokewood bank manager Thomas Ulick Burke transporting gold and money to Smythesdale. There are 2 memorials on the side of the road between cape clear and scarsdale for him.
The gallows from this gaol are now located behind the old Smythesdale courthouse and gaol cells.


Anyway , here is the story , including a virtual tour of the underground cells.
https://www.thecourier.com.au/story...round-tunnels-found-beneath-ballarat/#slide=1

 

[just starting]

I spoke to one of the old timers today about the civic hall site and he remembers it as a kid ( around the mid 1930`s to early 1940`s ) being the Haymarket stock and stock feed centre. The current Haymarket is across the road ,but this was a big deal ,apparently. He is not sure of the timelines ,but,the Alfred hall must have been on the site at the same time ,by the sounds of it. This bloke is getting on ,so i was really stretching his memory. He does remember dozens of pubs around that area , but isn`t sure if any were on that block. Hopefully i will run into another 3 blokes ,2 of which have family business history in the centre of town and the other has done extensive research on ballarat.

FOZ

 

[just starting]

As luck would have it, i ran into one of the other old timers ,today. He came into our shop ,so i seized the opportunity to ask him some questions.
He is one of the nicest blokes you would ever meet.

That civic hall site was always full of shops or businesses ,with the hall still there. On the corner of doveton st and mair st opposite
the peter lalor / highlander hotel ( the one in the picture above ) , there was a peugeot dealer by the name of Vic Wendt. On another corner of that block at the corner of mair and armstrong st north, there was a Beaurepaires in later years ,but the interesting thing is this fella remembers all the stock feed places and rural type businesses being on that block and close by ,but not which ones. Apparently all the shops had 30 year leases and when they expired ,they would either move or sell up and someone else would take over the lease of the building or buildings they were in.

But he told me something straight out of left field. There was an overhead bridge with a railway line that went ( he thinks ) from the where the Allied flour mills is in creswick road ,right behind where i mentioned previously that vic claypipe was and stopped somewhere near the corner of the civic hall and the peter lalor hotel. I am trying to picture how this works in my mind ,but he clearly remembers it and thought there may have been a railway siding. Because of the short distance it
travelled ( about 2 miles ) ,it may have been a tourist train taking people to near the centre of town.
I am going to try to find some more info on this. All the bottles and leather and pottery and artifacts being found metres under the ground could possible indicate this was another location where there were underground shops that may have been bulldozed and covered over a long time ago. I am only speculating ,but i know there was a network of underground shops in ballarat, mainly around sturt street.
This bloke has offered to show me some very old drawings of ballarat if i can catch him home when i am going past. Could be some good viewing.

 

[Greenhornet_au]

How awesome is that !!

I have an associate that is into railways and may have information, I will ask him today because I was chasing him about some railway info in SA also.

 

[just starting]

Thanks , greenhornet-au :Y:

 

[just starting]

Greenhornet-au, i accidently found part of that rail line on the CFA map when looking for something else. It starts exactly where the old timer told me and finishes one block from the civic hall site. How far did that original rail line go ?

 

[just starting]

I just went one better and did a google earth search .

How accurate was this bloke ?

 

[Greenhornet_au]

How good is that !

:clap: :trophy:

 

[just starting]

The only reason i came across it was because there was a fire listed on the cfa website just across the road from there and i spotted the tracks.

Looks like the tracks went on the other side of the site to where i thought they were and that is the side they found all the bottles, about 100 yards from the end of the tracks on that map..

Food for thought.

 

[Greenhornet_au]

Maybe it was where the train stopped after a short passenger run, and that is where all the bottles and rubbish were cleaned out and dumped before it was back in service.

Odd bit of track, industrial service ?

 

[Mackka]

Please pardon my ignorance but is that line called a siding and could it have been put there to enable loading and unloading for the Flour Mill other industry?
Probably a silly question.
Mackka

 

[just starting]

There are no silly questions, Mackka.

I forgot until you have just mentioned it, but i think he did say to me there could have been a siding.

Looking at these pics makes me think the bridge he was talking about may have been a pedestrian bridge at the end of the line and not a bridge that had a train go over it ,like i thought he said. I have an uncle who has recently retired from the railways and worked in and around ballarat for just over 50 years. I`ll be catching up with him next week, so i`ll pose the question regarding this siding . He will know.

When the rail line was mentioned ,this bloke did say it was an old rail line and you can see remnants of it from one of the side streets. It is the next street to a rat run i use around town and i haven`t noticed any trains , but i may be wrong.

Funny we haven`t had any news ,locally about where this site is at .
The way things work around here is there is a big story and then silence and then out of the blue, the story is all over the news again.

Still a wait and see sort of thing.

FOZ

 

[deepblue]

Hi JS
I think that you will find the line that you have marked on the photo is that of the drain which is the creek and the flour mill siding was parallel to the main line. The next block down was where the old siding was which is now a car park and end at Ararat St. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it.
Cheers db

 

[just starting]

I think you might have a point Deep Blue. Actually ,you do. The line i have marked is on the wrong side of Doveton street and a block or so too far north ,isn`t it ?
My mistake. Thanks for picking that up. This bloke said you can still see the remnants of the old tracks somewhere in Holmes street. I might mosey on down there on the way to work and have a look. I have never been in that carpark ,but if that is where the siding used to be ,then the tracks may still be there somewhere.

Have you ever noticed them ?

Cheers.

FOZ

 

[user 4386]

Greenhornet-au, i accidently found part of that rail line on the CFA map when looking for something else. It starts exactly where the old timer told me and finishes one block from the civic hall site. How far did that original rail line go ?

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/14279/1559463531_rail.jpg

Yes, that siding went virtually right to the site being developed:

There were a number of such sidings (eg another just north peels off towards Officeworks, known as Sawmill Siding). :

 

[just starting]

Thanks, Goldierocks. :Y:

 

[derbyfour]

We went up the Murray for a week a few months back. Moored on the Vic side one arvo and I went for a walk. Found an old bottle graveyard. All partially smashed. So upsetting.