NQMA Making Detecting On Leases Illegal.

[Simmo]

Lets just say, I heard about HMS Sheffield on the Telex....

 

[Rockwall]

Lets just say, I heard about HMS Sheffield on the Telex....

Young bloke!

 

[Simmo]

Moderator alert!!!
Be prepared!!

 

[sand surfer]

Rockwall, you are not permitted to live on a ML.

If you are a law abiding Fossicker, I don't see the proposed changes as much of a problem?
Ask and receive permission from the land holder and EPM holder, simple?
All 3 parties know where they stand and can all be held accountable.

If you get caught on a lease or MLA, you lose that right to apply for permission perhaps???

Being that you have done the right thing and followed the process, surely you would make more of an effort to do the right thing?

I see what you are saying Sand Surfer, my leases are on the R16, no detecting allowed at all in this area, unless on a ML with permission.
we still lose gear too, and there are detectorists all over the place, doing the wrong thing.

If the proposed changes come into effect then without the correct paperwork in place, they can be told to leave or face legal issues.
No grey area's, you just cant be there without permission.

If there is detectorist's all over the place doing the wrong thing, then instead of rule change's, how about the powers to be get off their backside's and start doing their jobs and fining these people that are breaking the rule's,no it is easier to sit in the office and put a blanket ban on everyone.Not having a chop at you blokes with MC/ML's simmo ,but their will always be that small group that don't care, and they are the one's that should be rounded up and fined :Y:

 

[Rockwall]

Rockwall, you are not permitted to live on a ML.

If you are a law abiding Fossicker, I don't see the proposed changes as much of a problem?
Ask and receive permission from the land holder and EPM holder, simple?
All 3 parties know where they stand and can all be held accountable.

If you get caught on a lease or MLA, you lose that right to apply for permission perhaps???

Being that you have done the right thing and followed the process, surely you would make more of an effort to do the right thing?

I see what you are saying Sand Surfer, my leases are on the R16, no detecting allowed at all in this area, unless on a ML with permission.
we still lose gear too, and there are detectorists all over the place, doing the wrong thing.

If the proposed changes come into effect then without the correct paperwork in place, they can be told to leave or face legal issues.
No grey area's, you just cant be there without permission.

If there is detectorist's all over the place doing the wrong thing, then instead of rule change's, how about the powers to be get off their backside's and start doing their jobs and fining these people that are breaking the rule's,no it is easier to sit in the office and put a blanket ban on everyone.Not having a chop at you blokes with MC/ML's simmo ,but their will always be that small group that don't care, and they are the one's that should be rounded up and fined :Y:

I have no doubt blokes like Simmo have legitimate concerns but it's like they want to instigate a no mans land to protect their gear, that won't stop the crims. I wonder how many people with a detector in their possession have been caught stealing or interfering with equipment. If miners have been close enough to see that happen then someone should have been prosecuted by now. ( I have other methods) Equally I have no doubt that some of the crims will use detecting as an excuse for being in a location, just like grubs in cities will use a myriad of excuses for being on a property. But we don't see pizza delivery drivers, meter readers etc etc banned from a particular area. What the small miners need to be very wary of is how it could turn out once public servants start playing with legislation. Once the can of worms is opened that is when the big players step in with their lobbyists. You can rest assured everything will get a lot more expensive and the bigger operators will try and price out the small miner. Be careful what you wish for. If this only about theft etc, has there been any attempt to lobby the government to allow small miners to reside on their lease? There are plenty of blokes like me who would happily camp on a lease to deter thieves free of charge when the holder wanted some time away.

 

[user 4485]

Whilst I would like EPMs to remain open to our law abiding prospecting and fossicking community, I can clearly see how the rule change will likely reduce (not stop) theft.
A thief would not be allowed onto an EPM to case the place (in the guise of prospecting/fossicking), and if caught, would have no defence to being on the land, let alone anywhere near his/her target haul.
This would presumably also protect Leases adjacent to EPMs, where would-be thieves could not even get near Leases?
As usual, the damn crooks may again ruin it for us all.
Is this too simplistic?

The thieving scum get on mining leases & claims now to case the place/s, thieve gear + gold etc. so putting rules in place for EPM's won't stop them doing what they are already doing. They have no problem going onto unattended leases & claims or trespassing onto private land now so why would they not go onto EPM's that are larger areas & harder to police regardless of what rules get put into place?
It would also have to be proven they were actively prospecting/fossicking on the EPM too. Photos/video etc. would be required if authorities aren't readily available to catch them red handed or else it will just be the EPM holders word against the perpetrator? The EPM holder, even with a change to the current law, would still have no right to kick people off the land (where they are otherwise lawfully allowed there) on suspicion, only tell them to cease prospecting/fossicking if caught & contact the relevant authority to deal with them - not an easy task in isolated areas & cause for even more concerns in areas that have a somewhat chequered past already with conflict.

As usual, the damn crooks may again ruin it for us all.
Correct - the change will do little except add extra headaches for those of us that do the right thing. It will mean more red tape in accessing areas, more permissions needing to be sought & given - the larger companies just routinely ignore the requests for permission or issue blanket NO's to all. The large EPM's will be what is the downfall for prospectors/fossickers not the small EPM holders i.e. large companies have the larger EPM's tied up so their arrogance in not replying or just giving a flat NO for no good reason will mean large areas of land not able to be legally accessed. In some cases these large companies themselves aren't even aware of the rules or the need for them to give us permission either so it's another reason they don't bother with a reply.
From what I've seen happen in NSW (prior to more Fossicking Districts being declared) there will be a lot of people prospecting/fossicking in Qld without being compliant under the letter of the law if this gets through i.e. after a while when companies keep ignoring requests for permission or issue blanket NO's for no good reason people will get sick of it & go onto the EPM's anyway. This will create more problems for the Mines Dept. & tenement holders than it solves.

How will areas like Forsayth, Georgetown, Clermont, Gympie, Durikai, Thanes Creek etc. go - private pay to detect areas & the GPA's exist from landholder/leaseholder/land manager permission but under the rules proposed they will also need EPM holder permission? If a EPM holder decides to on a whim they could technically shut these areas down?
Maybe they will need to declare Fossicking Districts like NSW that extinguish the need to get EPM holder permission in specified areas on request by Local Government Areas or landholder/leaseholder/land manager?
Hopefully NQMA have thought of all of this & have represented all their members???
I'd urge all concerned parties to contact NQMA for their official stance on exactly what they are asking for + whether they have given consideration of the flow on affects to all areas of mining/exploring/prospecting/fossicking.
[email protected]

 

[sand surfer]

Hi simmo in post 80 you say we should get permission from the people that pay ,we pay (fossikers licence)that gives us the right to fossick, we ask permission from the land holder to be on there land, they payed for the land.So we lock it all up and that creates a bigger problem as dave 79 said,a continued "no" then the respect for rules start to wane,it does not matter which way we push the barrow, locking fossickers out will not stop the criminal acts, and the other point is, have you got the time to sign all the fossickers licence's, because with a yes, that is what must happen with conditions stated on the licence.IT is good that you let people on your leases as not many would,but the old stop the crime barrow mate has a wobbly wheel ,i wish there was a easy solution to the problem, but it will keep rising its ugly head no matter where we are .I know what it is like as i stated earlier with the farm, but as we leased as well it was the lease farms that got hit the hardest ,unattended over night, we even put game camera's up but you show the police and they say who is it, you catch them we will charge them, head banging the wall again,so i am buggered what we do to stop it simmo :Y:

 

[Danny13]

Rockwall, you are not permitted to live on a ML.

If you are a law abiding Fossicker, I don't see the proposed changes as much of a problem?
Ask and receive permission from the land holder and EPM holder, simple?
All 3 parties know where they stand and can all be held accountable.

If you get caught on a lease or MLA, you lose that right to apply for permission perhaps???

Being that you have done the right thing and followed the process, surely you would make more of an effort to do the right thing?

I see what you are saying Sand Surfer, my leases are on the R16, no detecting allowed at all in this area, unless on a ML with permission.
we still lose gear too, and there are detectorists all over the place, doing the wrong thing.

If the proposed changes come into effect then without the correct paperwork in place, they can be told to leave or face legal issues.
No grey area's, you just cant be there without permission.

If there is detectorist's all over the place doing the wrong thing, then instead of rule change's, how about the powers to be get off their backside's and start doing their jobs and fining these people that are breaking the rule's,no it is easier to sit in the office and put a blanket ban on everyone.Not having a chop at you blokes with MC/ML's simmo ,but their will always be that small group that don't care, and they are the one's that should be rounded up and fined :Y:

In a perfect world sand surfer . There arent the resources up there to patrol the area.

 

[Rockwall]

Rockwall, you are not permitted to live on a ML.

If you are a law abiding Fossicker, I don't see the proposed changes as much of a problem?
Ask and receive permission from the land holder and EPM holder, simple?
All 3 parties know where they stand and can all be held accountable.

If you get caught on a lease or MLA, you lose that right to apply for permission perhaps???

Being that you have done the right thing and followed the process, surely you would make more of an effort to do the right thing?

I see what you are saying Sand Surfer, my leases are on the R16, no detecting allowed at all in this area, unless on a ML with permission.
we still lose gear too, and there are detectorists all over the place, doing the wrong thing.

If the proposed changes come into effect then without the correct paperwork in place, they can be told to leave or face legal issues.
No grey area's, you just cant be there without permission.

If there is detectorist's all over the place doing the wrong thing, then instead of rule change's, how about the powers to be get off their backside's and start doing their jobs and fining these people that are breaking the rule's,no it is easier to sit in the office and put a blanket ban on everyone.Not having a chop at you blokes with MC/ML's simmo ,but their will always be that small group that don't care, and they are the one's that should be rounded up and fined :Y:

In a perfect world sand surfer . There arent the resources up there to patrol the area.

And that means take a sledgehammer to everyone else?

 

[Simmo]

And that means take a sledgehammer to everyone else?

If thats what it takes..... yes.
We need to stop the rot...

You cannot willy nilly wander around, cross borders, MLA's, ML's and then if unlucky enough to be caught by ARMED ESCORT mining inspectors,
and claim 'Aww I didnt know'??

BULLSHIT!

I've copped a shit load of flack, and support, from this post.
I didnt write, what I copied and pasted in post one.
Back in July....

I am a small miner...

It costs me and Sarah, about $20,000 to peg a lease....
Helicopters cost us $600 per hour....
Native title... don't even get me started.... $2700 for 15 minutes attendance....
Yup, Environmental Authority has changed... but stilll.........
Compliance... far out...

$12,000 a year, to keep ONE lease, that I haven't got time to mine yet..

My turn to be Cranky??

After the Barrage of calls that I have had, I'll bow out of this conversation, the NQMA will be posting their response shortly.

 

[Dave79]

Looks like you made a bad investment.

 

[Gregupnorth]

I wish I was able to post earlier but I had no phone or internet for some time due to a thunder storm
I am hoping to shed some light and set the record straight.

I am a small scale miner and a member of the NQMA and have attended most meetings.
But I am only one member and can not officerly write on behalf of NQMA but I will be truthful and honest as I can.

Most NQMA members work hard and just want to quietly go about there business and would not want to get involved in debating people on a forum.

It is getting harder and harder to be a miner as it seems the current state gov does not like small scale miners farmers ect
It seems they are trying to squeeze us all out by way of ever increasing costs, red tape and beurocasy, rule and policy changes and compliance requirements then thrown under the native title bus.

Now a lot of metal detectors have been sold up here in North QLD but there is no official area for them to go. the closest to Cairns is Clermont and that' I think is further then SYD to MEL
So we are finding a lot more detectorists targeting mining leases and without the pastoralist permission on EPMs.
adding to the problems of the small scale miners.
I must add that most detectorists would like to do the right thing but there is always some that wreck it for the majority.

At the NQMA meetings some miners vent there frustrations and a lot is said mostly at gov officials.
I have attended most meetings including the last two in the past six months and can truthfully say
THERE HAS BEEN NO DISCUSSION ON BANNING METAL DETECTING ON EPM'S AND THEY HAVE NOT LOBBYED ANY GOV DEP ABOUT THIS.

I feel that the president of the NQMA James has been treated a bit unfairly
He did mention about detecting on EPMs at the last meeting as in miners spend a lot of money to have a EPM and it would be good if we knew who was on them and what they find and where. Just wishful thinking out loud. Then we moved on to another topic.

Now what this original post was about was and is true is that the NQMA have asked the relevant Gov dep to try and include mining lease applications to be treated as the same as granted ones when it comes to trespassing.
The reason for this comes from there are some people who study the mines dep online maps and when a new lease pops up they see it as a x marks the spot on where they should next go detecting.
The miners spend a lot of time and money to get a lease to an application stage and when we get this happening there is a lot of frustration and anger.

I have heard people call FNQ the wild west as you can almost make a movie about some of the things that happen up here.
Any way I hope this clears things up a bit. Cheers

 

[Rockwall]

And that means take a sledgehammer to everyone else?

If thats what it takes..... yes.
We need to stop the rot...

You cannot willy nilly wander around, cross borders, MLA's, ML's and then if unlucky enough to be caught by ARMED ESCORT mining inspectors,
and claim 'Aww I didnt know'??

BULLSHIT!

I've copped a shite load of flack, and support, from this post.
I didnt write, what I copied and pasted in post one.
Back in July....

I am a small miner...

It costs me and Sarah, about $20,000 to peg a lease....
Helicopters cost us $600 per hour....
Native title... don't even get me started.... $2700 for 15 minutes attendance....
Yup, Environmental Authority has changed... but stilll.........
Compliance... far out...

$12,000 a year, to keep ONE lease, that I haven't got time to mine yet..

My turn to be Cranky??

After the Barrage of calls that I have had, I'll bow out of this conversation, the NQMA will be posting their response shortly.

Couple of things Simmo, I have never been to the Palmer, mainly due to the reputation it has for aggravation. Sometimes from land holders due to the attitude and behaviour of miners.
I do not wander around "willy nilly". I have never been on a lease. I resent the implication that I have and/or that I should be treated like a criminal because of others.
I have often considered becoming a "small miner" but for the financial reasons you have outlined I have chosen not to. You chose to do so, good on you but that does not mean the rest of us should suffer for it.
If an "armed escort" has found people where they shouldn't be then why haven't they been prosecuted and made an example of. I seriously doubt a court would accept "I didn't know " as an excuse.
You implied in earlier posts that you were working from daylight to dusk on your mine, yet you now say you haven't got time to work it? Why take it on then?
Not everyone else's fault if you make bad choices.
$12000 a year, less than 10ozs, sounds like a pretty fair deal. How many ozs did you budget for when you took it on?
Your post above just confirms everyone else's fears. No wonder you are copping some flak. The flak must have been by pm or email as I haven't seen anything that could be termed flak on here. It would be good if NQMA could explain their position as they not responding to POLITE correspondence.
Too much French Champagne last night perhaps?! It doesn't help clear thinking.

 

[Rockwall]

I wish I was able to post earlier but I had no phone or internet for some time due to a thunder storm
I am hoping to shed some light and set the record straight.

I am a small scale miner and a member of the NQMA and have attended most meetings.
But I am only one member and can not officerly write on behalf of NQMA but I will be truthful and honest as I can.

Most NQMA members work hard and just want to quietly go about there business and would not want to get involved in debating people on a forum.

It is getting harder and harder to be a miner as it seems the current state gov does not like small scale miners farmers ect
It seems they are trying to squeeze us all out by way of ever increasing costs, red tape and beurocasy, rule and policy changes and compliance requirements then thrown under the native title bus.

Now a lot of metal detectors have been sold up here in North QLD but there is no official area for them to go. the closest to Cairns is Clermont and that' I think is further then SYD to MEL
So we are finding a lot more detectorists targeting mining leases and without the pastoralist permission on EPMs.
adding to the problems of the small scale miners.
I must add that most detectorists would like to do the right thing but there is always some that wreck it for the majority.

At the NQMA meetings some miners vent there frustrations and a lot is said mostly at gov officials.
I have attended most meetings including the last two in the past six months and can truthfully say
THERE HAS BEEN NO DISCUSSION ON BANNING METAL DETECTING ON EPM'S AND THEY HAVE NOT LOBBYED ANY GOV DEP ABOUT THIS.

I feel that the president of the NQMA James has been treated a bit unfairly
He did mention about detecting on EPMs at the last meeting as in miners spend a lot of money to have a EPM and it would be good if we knew who was on them and what they find and where. Just wishful thinking out loud. Then we moved on to another topic.

Now what this original post was about was and is true is that the NQMA have asked the relevant Gov dep to try and include mining lease applications to be treated as the same as granted ones when it comes to trespassing.
The reason for this comes from there are some people who study the mines dep online maps and when a new lease pops up they see it as a x marks the spot on where they should next go detecting.
The miners spend a lot of time and money to get a lease to an application stage and when we get this happening there is a lot of frustration and anger.

I have heard people call FNQ the wild west as you can almost make a movie about some of the things that happen up here.
Any way I hope this clears things up a bit. Cheers

Thank you. No doubt it should be treated as a lease from the application on. Get the act changed so a holder or his rep can live on a lease. Surely that would help?
I agree with your assessment on the state government, which is why I have been saying to be careful when asking for legislation to be changed. The opportunity may be taken to get rid of small operators, or at least make it impossible for them. How much for an EPM block these days? Around $1000 application and $200 annual rent? Wonder what it will go up to if the act is changed?
I can tell you now I am a dobber. The property I pay to detect and camp on absolutely love me being there, I treat it like my own, fix broken wires, keep an eye on the stock etc etc. They also keep me up to date with how many people are there with permission, their vehicle make etc. Like I said I am a dobber as far as this is concerned and will stand alongside the property owner if someone needs ejecting.

 

[sand surfer]

Hi gregupnorth, i put a application in for a small miners claim in the gem fields (qld) i thought that when the application was put on the mapping as a application, it was off limits to fossicking,did i read it wrong,or was that for a small miners claim only, if i got it wrong i will have to give myself a upper cut,the application was rejected anyway, as i am not the brightest candle in the pack when it comes to computors,and we know that those wonderfull people in the mining office,if all the i are not dotted and all the t not crossed, the application goes out the back door with your cash,i had a choice computor course :money: :money: :money: or stay a fossicker so stayed a fossicker .As with letting the epm owner know what i find and where ,i don't really have a problem with that but as a spotters fee if and when a lease is granted the lease holder might put a mark on a piece of paper so the fossicker can still have a play there O .I can see the problem with X marks the spot on the lease application greg, but if i see a lease application boundary on the mapping, to me that says off limits no entry,but there will always be that element that just not give a stuff :Y:

 

[Danny13]

Looks like you made a bad investment.

Sounds like your on the R16 Dave79 . These small miners are trying to make a living , a little bit of empathy will go a long way!

 

[Danny13]

And that means take a sledgehammer to everyone else?

If thats what it takes..... yes.
We need to stop the rot...

You cannot willy nilly wander around, cross borders, MLA's, ML's and then if unlucky enough to be caught by ARMED ESCORT mining inspectors,
and claim 'Aww I didnt know'??

BULLSHIT!

I've copped a shite load of flack, and support, from this post.
I didnt write, what I copied and pasted in post one.
Back in July....

I am a small miner...

It costs me and Sarah, about $20,000 to peg a lease....
Helicopters cost us $600 per hour....
Native title... don't even get me started.... $2700 for 15 minutes attendance....
Yup, Environmental Authority has changed... but stilll.........
Compliance... far out...

$12,000 a year, to keep ONE lease, that I haven't got time to mine yet..

My turn to be Cranky??

After the Barrage of calls that I have had, I'll bow out of this conversation, the NQMA will be posting their response shortly.

Couple of things Simmo, I have never been to the Palmer, mainly due to the reputation it has for aggravation. Sometimes from land holders due to the attitude and behaviour of miners.
I do not wander around "willy nilly". I have never been on a lease. I resent the implication that I have and/or that I should be treated like a criminal because of others.
I have often considered becoming a "small miner" but for the financial reasons you have outlined I have chosen not to. You chose to do so, good on you but that does not mean the rest of us should suffer for it.
If an "armed escort" has found people where they shouldn't be then why haven't they been prosecuted and made an example of. I seriously doubt a court would accept "I didn't know " as an excuse.
You implied in earlier posts that you were working from daylight to dusk on your mine, yet you now say you haven't got time to work it? Why take it on then?
Not everyone else's fault if you make bad choices.
$12000 a year, less than 10ozs, sounds like a pretty fair deal. How many ozs did you budget for when you took it on?
Your post above just confirms everyone else's fears. No wonder you are copping some flak. The flak must have been by pm or email as I haven't seen anything that could be termed flak on here. It would be good if NQMA could explain their position as they not responding to POLITE correspondence.
Too much French Champagne last night perhaps?! It doesn't help clear thinking.

What do you mean by suffer Rockwall, find some crown land to prospect on , or peg your own lease !

 

[Rockwall]

And that means take a sledgehammer to everyone else?

If thats what it takes..... yes.
We need to stop the rot...

You cannot willy nilly wander around, cross borders, MLA's, ML's and then if unlucky enough to be caught by ARMED ESCORT mining inspectors,
and claim 'Aww I didnt know'??

BULLSHIT!

I've copped a shite load of flack, and support, from this post.
I didnt write, what I copied and pasted in post one.
Back in July....

I am a small miner...

It costs me and Sarah, about $20,000 to peg a lease....
Helicopters cost us $600 per hour....
Native title... don't even get me started.... $2700 for 15 minutes attendance....
Yup, Environmental Authority has changed... but stilll.........
Compliance... far out...

$12,000 a year, to keep ONE lease, that I haven't got time to mine yet..

My turn to be Cranky??

After the Barrage of calls that I have had, I'll bow out of this conversation, the NQMA will be posting their response shortly.

Couple of things Simmo, I have never been to the Palmer, mainly due to the reputation it has for aggravation. Sometimes from land holders due to the attitude and behaviour of miners.
I do not wander around "willy nilly". I have never been on a lease. I resent the implication that I have and/or that I should be treated like a criminal because of others.
I have often considered becoming a "small miner" but for the financial reasons you have outlined I have chosen not to. You chose to do so, good on you but that does not mean the rest of us should suffer for it.
If an "armed escort" has found people where they shouldn't be then why haven't they been prosecuted and made an example of. I seriously doubt a court would accept "I didn't know " as an excuse.
You implied in earlier posts that you were working from daylight to dusk on your mine, yet you now say you haven't got time to work it? Why take it on then?
Not everyone else's fault if you make bad choices.
$12000 a year, less than 10ozs, sounds like a pretty fair deal. How many ozs did you budget for when you took it on?
Your post above just confirms everyone else's fears. No wonder you are copping some flak. The flak must have been by pm or email as I haven't seen anything that could be termed flak on here. It would be good if NQMA could explain their position as they not responding to POLITE correspondence.
Too much French Champagne last night perhaps?! It doesn't help clear thinking.

What do you mean by suffer Rockwall, find some crown land to prospect on , or peg your own lease !

I do prospect on crown land lawfully. I don't go near leases. Perhaps you should read all the previous posts before saying something like that. What I mean by "suffer" should be obvious. Any crown land that may have gold on it is covered by an EPM, very little isn't. I think that means there would be no crown land available? Anybody who has a stake in fossicking would suffer, caravan parks, the local butcher, the local pub etc etc etc.
It is also increasingly obvious that some small miners hold more than one lease. Why is that permitted? You can't be in several places at once, unless you have employees. I had better brace myself but look for companies making that an issue.

 

[Rockwall]

Looks like you made a bad investment.

Sounds like your on the R16 Dave79 . These small miners are trying to make a living , a little bit of empathy will go a long way!

Aren't we all. How about some empathy for the rest of us that do things according to the rules? Why join in a game and then expect the rules to be changed just for you?

 

[kemjak57]

To rockwall perhaps next time you go to town leave the keys in your car, your wallet on the dash and the doors unlocked. When its taken from you then youll know what loosing something youve paid hard earned cash for feels like. You guys sound like its your right to go onto these places just because your heart is beating. The world has changed and new rules apply. I am privileged to be able to prospect on Simons leases and if I find anything I let him know. Im fed up reading the posts that are definitely having a go at Simon. Goldhounds have had the same treatment with people pilfering from their blood sweat and tears, thats why they are pissed as well. If 12k isnt much chuck your hand in your pocket and flick it to Simon for next years payments. See how it feels. Had enough of this garbage being blurted on this subject by people who arent paying for their own leases.