More on Bush Power

[condor22]

Agreed, my next AUX will be lead Crystal, but as my previous AUX lasted 10yrs, I am not expecting the need to replace for another 5 years or so.

BTW, RR are you still in the U.K? if so you're not going to get hot enough over there to test anything like an Aussie summer

Nightjar, I disagree it's not sales pitch, that logic is mentioned in quite a few places on the web. My mate is an electrical/electronics engineer and does self contained electrical campers/vans and motor homes and advocates it, notwithstanding my own expertise.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Agreed, my next AUX will be lead Crystal, but as my previous AUX lasted 10yrs, I am not expecting the need to replace for another 5 years or so.

BTW, RR are you still in the U.K? if so you're not going to get hot enough over there to test anything like an Aussie summer

Nightjar, I disagree it's not sales pitch, that logic is mentioned in quite a few places on the web. My mate is an electrical/electronics engineer and does self contained electrical campers/vans and motor homes and advocates it, notwithstanding my own expertise.

It was 39 degrees here this summer, and that's pretty cosy no matter where you live, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm think Lead Crystal is the way to go because you can use all their power and they are half the price of Lithium and they charge about as fast as you can stuff it in there, where as Lead Acid has a very slow rate of charge, Yes they can last for up to 10 years and more but in an off grid situation like out in the bush they take for ever to charge and even at a rate of around 10Ah on a 115Ah battery can still take up to 12-14 hours to get to the disulphide stage, And being here makes charging batteries even more of a problem in these UV Challenged Locations, LOL layful: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So a fast charging battery is more important here because there is no point in having 560w of Solar if the Battery is going to waste it when it becomes available as in when the sun does shine :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

 

[Nightjar]

How does the weight compare across the three types of batteries?

 

[Ridge Runner]

How does the weight compare across the three types of batteries?

Lithium are around half the weight as a Lead Acid, and lead Crystal weigh about the same as a Lead Acid battery, "BUT" because the Lead Crystal batteries charge so easily or fast you can get away with running a lighter 78Ah Battery compare to a 110Ah so you will save some weight and space due to it being smaller and they have up to 7500 cycles,

Here is the UK link so you can download the PDF but they on sale in Aus for sure,

https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/media/pdf/AMC9005_UK.pdf

 

[Ridge Runner]

Sorry I posted the link to the 40Ah model and I have changed the link above But here is the list of them,

https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/battery-technology/lead-crystal-battery.html

 

[Nightjar]

Nightjar, I disagree it's not sales pitch, that logic is mentioned in quite a few places on the web. My mate is an electrical/electronics engineer and does self contained electrical campers/vans and motor homes and advocates it, notwithstanding my own expertise.

Firstly Condor & RR, in no way do I dispute your experience, knowledge and expertise, trying to learn here, thoroughly enjoying your posts. Keep it coming.

What does the BC you mention in the BCDC mean, the only google reference I can find is "Before Christ." layful:

Has an independent survey ever been done that says, "Thou shalt not use alternator and solar power input simultaneously?" "What are the consequences?"

Have had many knockers who have viewed the set up through the years who have said; "It'll never work." Yet it is proven that you can have a reliable set up with out all the other expensive add ons.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Nightjar, I disagree it's not sales pitch, that logic is mentioned in quite a few places on the web. My mate is an electrical/electronics engineer and does self contained electrical campers/vans and motor homes and advocates it, notwithstanding my own expertise.

Firstly Condor & RR, in no way do I dispute your experience, knowledge and expertise, trying to learn here, thoroughly enjoying your posts. Keep it coming.

What does the BC you mention in the BCDC mean, the only google reference I can find is "Before Christ." layful:

Has an independent survey ever been done that says, "Thou shalt not use alternator and solar power input simultaneously?" "What are the consequences?"

Have had many knockers who have viewed the set up through the years who have said; "It'll never work." Yet it is proven that you can have a reliable set up with out all the other expensive add ons.

Well your system has worked well over the years so I would be worried about messing with it,

Those Lead Crystal have a similar charging profile as an AGM So you can use and ordinary AGM smart charger AGM's like 14.8 and Lead Crystal like 14.7v so that's all good but I hear CTek have now modded one of their chargers to suit the LC Profile but you don't really need to worry about it if you have a Charger that does AGM's,

The thing I love about them is you can use every drop of power and it does no damage what so ever, and they are a heap cheaper than lithiums. I have these batteries on my shopping list, Soon hopefully. :Y:

 

[condor22]

I have no idea what the BC means other than its a model designation Redarc uses,

In no way am I saying you can't use alternator and solar at the same time, this will still charge, but.....

In earlier vehicles, many still on the road the standard alternator charged at 13.8V. To properly charge an AGM you need 14.4V and a GEL 14.1V. An under hood wet cell deep cycle is ok for alternator charging. In most caravan installs and in later model 4x4 like mine that don't have the space under hood, the battery is in a confined space or the rear of the vehicle and a sealed battery is needed for safety, so usually AGM or GEL and lately Lithium or Lead Crystal. All of these 4 types need better than alternator charging, to fully charge and give the best cycle life.

As I've noted a 3 stage charger starts in Boost, gradually increasing volts and close to the maximum Amps i.e the Redarc starts at 12V increasing (to Absorption V of 14.5) and close to 20Amps. This continues until the battery is between 80-90% charged.

It then moves to Absorption where the voltage is constant i.e. Redarc is 14.5V and the Amperage gradually reduces. (either for a predetermined time or until the Amps input reduces to below 4A for more than 30 seconds. The charger then moves into Float mode where there is minimum current, but the voltage is held at 13.3V. A battery is usually around 98% charged when it goes into Float mode

This then shows 2 issues. - In older vehicles where the Alternator output is 13.8V an AGM will not charge properly as it can't reach the 14.5V stage. Conversely if you have a later vehicle such as mine where the Alternator regularly outputs 14.5V, my AGM would be in constant Absorption mode and end up gassing off/cooking all the time.

Yes in both instances the battery gets a charge, but in both instances it aint doing the battery much good.

Lithium and Calcium batteries are even more fussy about how they are charged and can be a ticking time bomb if not done correctly.

FYI, if you have a smart charger, Solar, DC-DC or Mains that suits an AGM and or GEL and change to a Lead Crystal, you can use those chargers. If you go Lithium, and your charger does not include them, DON'T use it.

 

[PabloP]

I don't know but the BC could be Battery Charging DC, as it is typically a DC/DC battery charging system.

Rob P.

 

[condor22]

Probably fits better than Before Christ, lol

 

[Manpa]

Probably fits better than Before Christ, lol

Not sure what voltage he was, but some say he was very powerful! layful:

 

[Ded Driver]

just to help you fellas clear up a point on dual input charging;
when it is said 'you should not charge from 2 sources', this means;
You should not have 2 separate smart chargers running into your battery.
But, you can use a DC-DC charge controller that takes 2 supplies (alternator & solar) & combines it into ONE charge line into the battery.
.
My Projecta IDC45 takes both inputs, & prioritises solar first, & then uses the alternator input to make up any shortfall in charge current (if the motor is running of course)
.
If you have more than 1 solar panel, you simply wire the panels in parallel to add the Amps up, & that then all goes into the 'Solar Input' of your charger, whether it is a simple PWM or a MPPT DC-DC charger.

 

[Ridge Runner]

just to help you fellas clear up a point on dual input charging;
when it is said 'you should not charge from 2 sources', this means;
You should not have 2 separate smart chargers running into your battery.
But, you can use a DC-DC charge controller that takes 2 supplies (alternator & solar) & combines it into ONE charge line into the battery.
.
My Projecta IDC45 takes both inputs, & prioritises solar first, & then uses the alternator input to make up any shortfall in charge current (if the motor is running of course)
.
If you have more than 1 solar panel, you simply wire the panels in parallel to add the Amps up, & that then all goes into the 'Solar Input' of your charger, whether it is a simple PWM or a MPPT DC-DC charger.

Yeah that makes sense, So in reality you should not feed a battery from two sources at the same time, meaning using one or the other, which I would of thought would have been in the instructions.

 

[Ded Driver]

with all that in mind (on new tech), it is possible to put 2 'old school' simple fixed voltage/fixed amperage chargers across a battery, so long as you don't exceed the battery's max current charge rate (Amps). Not recommended as one of the chargers could be a bit off on voltage compared to the other, but I have done it, many moons ago when I only had 2x 6A chargers & I needed to get some charge into it asap.

 

[condor22]

DED, check post #26, I did mention that certain chargers can have 2 inputs which is ok.....

It's just that having already spent over $300 several years ago on the BCDC120 (non solar) adding a relay is a lot cheaper than spending heaps on a BCDC1225 or similar.

In this instance, I will be charging from one or the other where yours and the 1225 can handle both inputs at the same time.

But in both instances have only one output

 

[condor22]

Probably fits better than Before Christ, lol

Not sure what voltage he was, but some say he was very powerful! layful:

In the spirit of not discussing politics or religion on the Forum, I'll leave this be to avoid raising the ire of the Moderators

 

[bicter]

What does the BC you mention in the BCDC mean, the only google reference I can find is "Before Christ." layful:

Nightjar,
Possibly "Battery Charger Direct Current"

 

[Ridge Runner]

What does the BC you mention in the BCDC mean, the only google reference I can find is "Before Christ." layful:

Nightjar,
Possibly "Battery Charger Direct Current"

Yeah that's what I read on a site over here.

 

[Ded Driver]

Condor22. all good, I did see post #26, but for some who are confused by the issue, I just wanted to clarify the 2 inputs to a charger vs 2 inputs to a battery

 

[Nightjar]

Beats me how my set up has kept my fridges running and charged all the accessories and batteries have had a normal life?
Everything points to failure but...........

Three not two separate chargers, alternator, solar + PVM & Solar in series + MPPT feeding a 110AH Deepcycle.
When my beers warm and the steaks have thawed, maybe then and only then will I spend the $$$'s for an upgrade in the "box of tricks" pictured above.

Not wanting to start an online war! O layful: :bomb: But we see it every day, 4b's on the road loaded up with their mats, winches, side awnings, 4" lifts and 10" wheels, rubbish bag and all the other "must haves" and not a speck of dust or mud to be seen. Yes it's their choice and their money but it's the sales pitches/advertisements behind all this. Business is business!

Sorry RR, can you get back to your original post.