More on Bush Power

[Ridge Runner]

I spent the weekend charging batteries, First I used the NOCO G15000 15Ah Smart Charger and when they were done and it switched off I then ran the "Repair" mode and once that finished I then hooked up the little NOCO G3500 / 3.5Ah Smart Charger because it seems to top them off better than any other charger I have seen and after 24 hours Resting my 85Ah FLA DC battery is resting at 13.401 and all my 115Ah Batteries are reading 13.24 to 13.25v.

I ran the 47L fridge on the 85Ah battery for 67 hours and all it used was 27.178Ah OR 326.5 Wh before I charged it and the fact it is holding almost 13 and 1/2 volts seems that this is the better way to charge normal FLA deep cycle batteries, I always charge my batteries before deploying them and none of them ever had that kind of voltage when they arrived, Some are over 2 1/2 years old the 85 is about 2 years old,

So although Smart chargers are not the fastest when it comes to FLA batteries they do a good job if you have the time to do a proper job, The 85Ah was meant to be 900cca but the one that arrived turned out to be a 500cca and now after charging it this way it is reading 542cca which is quite a jump in power,

J.

 

[ctxkid]

a true deep cycle does not and should not have cranking amps

 

[Ridge Runner]

a true deep cycle does not and should not have cranking amps

That's right, Mine are Deep Cycle/Starter Batteries, And now the 115Ah batteries are now holding 13.4+ Volts, So that charging method seems to work the best on these type of batteries and this battery I bought in April 2017,

Looked after there is no reason why duel purpose batteries should not go the distance, These batteries have more Voltage and more CCA than they had when I bought them which is why I get such long run times where it can run the fridge for 6 to 8 hours before they even get down to 12.8v.

 

[Ded Driver]

RR, where you wrote 'FLA' battery, I assume thats meant to be 'SLA' ... Sealed Lead Acid ?

 

[Ridge Runner]

RR, where you wrote 'FLA' battery, I assume thats meant to be 'SLA' ... Sealed Lead Acid ?

No DD, FLA means Flooded Lead Acid which can be a battery with Caps or sealed or Semi Sealed like those that have breather tubes etc Mine have Breather Tubes / Vents.

Hope that helps,

J.

 

[Ded Driver]

ahhh ok, same dog, different leg
another term is VRLA (valve regulated lead acid)

 

[Ridge Runner]

I'm stoked how these batteries are working out, Another one was taken off the charger over 4 hours ago and it is reading 13.406v, Not quite as good as what the 85Ah is doing but we'll see at the 24 hour mark :Y:

 

[condor22]

mmm - the chart I posted re voltage state of charge, did some checking, (I have had it for some years) I found some versions of it with
"This is Wrong" posted over it. I found several charts online, all with different voltages at various states of charge and stopped at at 8 different ones.

I had a chat with my mate, who deals in batteries, solar, chargers and designs and installs. This is his take....

A batteries SOC voltage is most accurate when - The battery is absolutely fully charged. The charger should be turned off and no load for at least 5 hours to allow it to be at rest and at approx 25C. A reasonable or good quality, new AGM should then read 12.8 V at 100%.

At 80% = 12.6 V
At 50% = 12.2 V
At 30% = 12.0 V

I asked what 0% might be and he commented, "you wouldn't want to take an AGM that low as it will effectively ruin it re full capacity and life, so anything less than 12.0 V is not where you want to be."

Another point we discussed - If you applied a 10 A load for maybe 10 minutes to a full 100AH the voltage would drop to around 12.6 V. This does not mean it is 80% SOC, because when you disconnect the load, the voltage will bounce back.

Whereas if you apply a 100 amp load to the same battery for the same time, the voltage may drop a little lower lower due to the load, but will be at close to 80% SOC and won't bounce back.

My point being, battery voltage is only a guide, it will depend on it's age, condition, ambient temperature and been at rest from charge and loads for some hours before being measured. I see my van battery in the evening sitting at about 12.4 V with the 12 V TV on, heater going and sometimes other things for a total load of 4-5 amps. When I go to bed the heater might come on during the night and next morning, the battery sits at 12.5V, no load or charge. This equates to about 75% SOC which is correct as I also have a monitor that tells me that.

Would these V be correct for you CTX?

So, my apologies for referencing a chart that is wrong.

 

[ctxkid]

all i will say is each cell in a battery is approx 2.2 volts !

do the math

 

[Occasional_panner]

LOL I don't come here much, but when I do I like to check this thread to see all the bitching and sniping you guys do here.

It's a good laugh.......

 

[Jaros]

That's not a very nice way to put it!!
If that's the case with you you may as well not visit at all.

 

[robmoto]

Why not thera,s nothing like a good laugh in the morning .

 

[bicter]

all i will say is each cell in a battery is approx 2.2 volts !

do the math

Is this a typo?
Not sure which battery chemistry you're referring to that has an open circuit voltage of 2.2V/cell (13.2V). ie, at rest and unknown state of charge.

Among similar batteries types, the cell voltage can vary at identical states of charge, dependent on the makeup/acidity/temp of the electroyte.

To quote from wiki on lead acid batteries: "IUoU battery charging is a three-stage charging procedure for lead-acid batteries. A lead-acid battery's nominal voltage is 2 V for each cell. For a single cell, the voltage can range from 1.8 V loaded at full discharge, to 2.10 V in an open circuit at full charge.

Float voltage varies depending on battery type (i.e. flooded cells, gelled electrolyte, absorbed glass mat), and ranges from 1.8 V to 2.27 V. Equalization voltage, and charging voltage for sulfated cells, can range from 2.67 V to almost 3 V.[16] (only until a charge current is flowing)[17][18] Specific values for a given battery depend on the design and manufacturer recommendations, and are usually given at a baseline temperature of 20 C (68 F), requiring adjustment for ambient conditions." & " If the open circuit voltage of AGM cells is significantly higher than 2.093 volts, or 12.56 V for a 12 V battery, then it has a higher acid content than a flooded cell; while this is normal for an AGM battery, it is not desirable for long life.
AGM cells that are intentionally or accidentally overcharged will show a higher open circuit voltage according to the water lost (and acid concentration increased). One amp-hour of overcharge will liberate 0.335 grams of water; some of this liberated hydrogen and oxygen will recombine, but not all of it"

 

[condor22]

Funny, I post info that is of interest or make comments that are my opinion and that are not emotive and if wrong will say so when proven so. How that can be seen as bitching and sniping is beyond me..............

If someone else is wrong I'll try to support that argument and do so without be insulting to others, same same..............

Comment - Measuring individual cells for the layman at 2.2 V on a sealed AGM battery ????????

 

[xcvator]

LOL I don't come here much, but when I do I like to check this thread to see all the bitching and sniping you guys do here.

It's a good laugh.......

It's an electrical thread in a forum :lol: what else do you expect :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[madtuna]

like most wanting help threads, you ask 1 question, get 25 different answers and walk away more confused than when you began :8

 

[Ridge Runner]

Condor your voltage quotes seem to be the normal as posted by others on the net Too, But where it all goes tits up is when we do our own testing,

Take my tests for instance, I'm using what I would call average run of the mill Duel Purpose FLA " Flooded Lead Acid" Deep Cycle batteries Yet the Voltages I am seeing after 5 hours Rest is 13.426v and above +/- and 36/48 hours later I am still seeing 13.300v and above, This high voltage is the reason behind why I am getting such long run times because my fridge is running for 9 to 10 hours before the battery voltage has dropped to 12.890v after 1 hours rest, And also the reason why I can get run times up to 5 or 6 days from a single battery before the Voltage drops to 12.20+ Volts after less than 30 minutes Rest, and when you take into account that these are Duel Purpose type deep Cycle Batteries it kind of contradicts all the negative views and comments about these type of batteries because I am getting longer run times and higher Voltages than those using normal DC and AGM Batteries.

Why am I seeing such high voltages and such long run times is partly because of how I am charging them and partly because of the temps here,

Because of all of the above is the reason why I have not moved to AGM batteries and the reason I have been slow to embrace Lithium type batteries and the overall cost of Lithium batteries over here is a total Rip off , just last week I bought 2 Lithium 40Ah / 512Wh battery packs which I have yet to start playing with because I have been waiting for another fridge to turn up which turned up today, and I am in the process of cooling it down ready to start testing it and then I will start testing with the lithium Packs, So fingers crossed on those 2 events,

Personally because of how my FLA's are behaving I just don't see the need to move to a different type of Battery Tech and the only thing I need to work on is how fast I can Charge them back up, In order to move things along I have bought another 2 150w Solar Panels to give me a total of 600w, 4 X 150w = 600w and I also have a 100w and a 100w portable Panel I am thinking of adding another 4 X 150w so I can get maximum power which means buying the Victron 150/70 MPPT or bigger ??.

As for all the stupid comments going back and forth and all the piss taking people need to knock it off For a Simple reason, We all use different Tech with different Supply Needs and different Charging systems, My setup is seeing higher Stored Voltage, Using batteries that Cause other people issues yet I am using Hi Tech Chargers that I hated within a week of buying them yet I am seeing better more usable results, We can't go calling BS when some one posts their views because unless we are ALL using the same setup then our results will not match what the next Guy See's, As for the Charts posted on the Net none of them are matching the results compared to what I am seeing, Battery power wise I am seeing the best results when it comes to stored Voltage Vs Run Times and my Current Draw is less due to the Ambient temps and that is also being multiplied by the much higher voltage my batteries can store, because sometimes after 11 hours rest my batteries are reading 13.436V and at 6 hours they have read 13.456V and after being taken off the charger I have seen the voltage go from 13.496V and an hour later it has settle at 13.502V which is really weird because how on earth can a batteries voltage go up after it has been disconnected from the charger, Damned if I know But it did happen just the same.

 

[condor22]

To start with your Flooded Lead Acid batteries are different to AGMs and I'm not a big fan of them for caravan or 4x4 use.

Their charging voltage is typically lower than an AGM, particularly Boost mode.
The electrolyte needs to be monitored constantly and topped up.
They need to be kept vertical to prevent spillage.
Not recommended for confined space use i.e. under a caravan dinette seat

For me their only benefit is the price.

Re your voltages, my knowledge here is vague as 99% of my experience is with CCA under bonnet start batteries in the days of the 13.8V alternator charging so I'll leave that to others, sorry.

Good on you for getting such long run times, but my question/s would be, How deep are you cycling them and how long will they last? When you can answer both those Qs you will know if you are doing the right thing, lol.

I've said this before, "I spent most of my working life as an Electro/Mech Designer and with design there are many solutions to any one problem. Cost, available equipment and variety thereof, climate, environment, knowledge, time and personal bias are only some of the factors that will affect choice and outcome."

At the end of the day, if it works, works well and endures, it's right.

 

[ctxkid]

more fun than a barrel of monkeys this thread

[img=...]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1851/9889/products/[email protected]?v=1507943937[/img]

 

[Ridge Runner]

To start with your Flooded Lead Acid batteries are different to AGMs and I'm not a big fan of them for caravan or 4x4 use.

Their charging voltage is typically lower than an AGM, particularly Boost mode.
The electrolyte needs to be monitored constantly and topped up.
They need to be kept vertical to prevent spillage.
Not recommended for confined space use i.e. under a caravan dinette seat

The Charging and Repair Mode Voltage Slowly works its way up from about 13.3 to a peak of 16.251V in a 4 hour period "exactly" 4 Hours, These Batteries are Semi Sealed as the have a vent on each end of the Battery So they can not be topped up or monitored in the same way as a Battery with Caps

For me their only benefit is the price.

Re your voltages, my knowledge here is vague as 99% of my experience is with CCA under bonnet start batteries in the days of the 13.8V alternator charging so I'll leave that to others, sorry.

Good on you for getting such long run times, but my question/s would be, How deep are you cycling them and how long will they last? When you can answer both those Qs you will know if you are doing the right thing, lol.

I have taken them down to as low as 30% Once "As Per the Manufacturers Specs" But ever since then I have been only taking them down to 50/60% SOC, Like I said the battery ran my fridge for 5 and a half days and the battery was still above 12,20V, These Batteries also have a 5 year warranty

I've said this before, "I spent most of my working life as an Electro/Mech Designer and with design there are many solutions to any one problem. Cost, available equipment and variety thereof, climate, environment, knowledge, time and personal bias are only some of the factors that will affect choice and outcome."

I am well aware of your Electrical Skills which is why I have always Directed any questions I have had in the past to You,

Cost is Not an Issue for me, If I see something I like or want I will buy It, But As of yet I have yet to see any Battery that impresses me enough to make me buy it, I have only bought these Two Lithium Packs as a Play Thing to do some tests with and the other one is a present for Someone, Otherwise I would not of bought any of them,

These FLA/SSLA Batteries will work out fine if I can run enough power in to them which is why I will be running an excess of Solar Panels Due to the Lack of Sunlight.

At the end of the day, if it works, works well and endures, it's right.