Lebanon blast
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tyrion said:
Much speculation about what caused the two explosions.
Here is another take .
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/...4UhxVHyv5cuU5lJ_DZNeaP4rArOszlC2kNUSUd1nFxrd0
Also great to chill a six pack when out fishing.
Cans + nitrate + water in the esky and they (the cans) end up better than "Kimberley cool.)
Cans + nitrate + water in the esky and they (the cans) end up better than "Kimberley cool.)
tyrion said:
Sorry, you are wrong. Ammonium Nitrate on its own is nothing without a fuel. Diesel provides the fuel source in the form of Hydrocarbon and the Ammonium Nitrate is the oxidiser.
No amount of heat or banging it with a hammer or even shooting at it with a powerful high velocity rifle will set it off, only an explosive booster charge will detonate it.
No doubt people here and elsewhere will continue to hold to their theories based on what they think they know or what they've been told in the pub.
I hold a powdermans certificate along with an explosive manufactures licence issued by the NSW government.
Nightjar said:
Or add grey Aluminium powder and make your own Tannerite. That stuff will :100: go bang if you hit with a high velocity projectile.
I am sure you know more than me about explosives but this is an interesting read and could explain why there have been other disasters involving ammonia nitrate with out diesel or oil. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...as-fertiliser-plant-explosion-so-deadly-13609Whisp said:
Reminds me of the good ol days fishing with a bit of Chlorine and bf.... But on a much larger scale... {)
LW...
LW...
Whisp said:
Guess you better get a refund on your powdermans certificate and your explosive manufacturers licence Whisp. They didn't teach you everything about Ammonium Nitrate. Blown up a few things in my time both here in Oz, South East Asia and the Middle East. :bomb: :bomb: :bomb:
Cheers
Doug
I'm with Rockhunter62 on this one. Sounds like some voice of experience there.
Wisp, I have to tell you that you are wrong mate.
I am no powder monkey, however I have associates that are powder monkeys from the past, working in the mining industry and working quarry faces.
AN is not as stable as you think and a lot of Nitrates are not stable.
Nitrates need respect.
ICI gave a very comprehensive study on AN properties and risk, as well as use of. (SA Mines and Energy was a client of mine many years ago)
That is why Nitrate products are on a "list" with Police and other entities.
Given moisture, some metals in contact, dust and some heat, or friction, even handling a bag - just a small static charge induced can set off a rather big bang.
There are many many accidents that have occurred with Nitrates of many types.
We have no idea as to how the 'product' that caused the blast was stored, kept or handled.
Cant jump to conclusions, just a bad thing to happen anywhere.
But could that quantity have been confiscated from a ship, or held for farming use.. probably will come out later.
:|
Wisp, I have to tell you that you are wrong mate.
I am no powder monkey, however I have associates that are powder monkeys from the past, working in the mining industry and working quarry faces.
AN is not as stable as you think and a lot of Nitrates are not stable.
Nitrates need respect.
ICI gave a very comprehensive study on AN properties and risk, as well as use of. (SA Mines and Energy was a client of mine many years ago)
That is why Nitrate products are on a "list" with Police and other entities.
Given moisture, some metals in contact, dust and some heat, or friction, even handling a bag - just a small static charge induced can set off a rather big bang.
There are many many accidents that have occurred with Nitrates of many types.
We have no idea as to how the 'product' that caused the blast was stored, kept or handled.
Cant jump to conclusions, just a bad thing to happen anywhere.
But could that quantity have been confiscated from a ship, or held for farming use.. probably will come out later.
:|
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It does produce its own oxygen when it breaks down dozentit ?
The fact that there has been 2 other huge explosions of stored ammonium nitrate should confirm it can happen without diesel or other hydrocarbons.
1947 Texas
2013 Texas
Obviously there must have been a texan on holiday in Beirut
The fact that there has been 2 other huge explosions of stored ammonium nitrate should confirm it can happen without diesel or other hydrocarbons.
1947 Texas
2013 Texas
Obviously there must have been a texan on holiday in Beirut
Whisp said:
Ill go a little more low key on the qualifications list. But when you and your boys are regularly standing on up to 5000 tons of this stuff in a ship while unloading it, you try to know a little bit about something.
Just because i have a motorbike liscence doesnt mean i can ride one.
Ty
Whisp said:
:Y:
In it's pure form, Is it hydroscopic. ?
Maybe it sat around in the back of a shed for so long soaking
things up until it reached the point of ignition. ?
If so, I wonder what the contamination source would have been. ???
Maybe it sat around in the back of a shed for so long soaking
things up until it reached the point of ignition. ?
If so, I wonder what the contamination source would have been. ???
This is an interesting subject, sure hope someone can positively explain.
At this stage I'm with Whisp.
All I know about it is, when I as a fitter on Koolan Island I sometimes watched them load the drill holes for another blast.
A number of bags of Nitrate were manhandled from the quarry truck and poured down each hole manually, (70's before slurry trucks) usually 50 holes, diesel was added (Do not know any amounts or ratio) then the powder monkey dropped a type of detonator down each hole connected to cordite/cordex? The cordex??? linked all the holes and finally a length of fuse (Time to drive away to safe distance) was connected and ignited to set off the charges.
Somehow the charges were layed so the face holes exploded milliseconds before the row behind and so on so next 24 hours digging lay on quarry floor ready for the shovels to load the Haulpaks.
And as already mentioned we occasionally chilled our beer with a water AN when we ran out of ice when out on our boats.
At this stage I'm with Whisp.
All I know about it is, when I as a fitter on Koolan Island I sometimes watched them load the drill holes for another blast.
A number of bags of Nitrate were manhandled from the quarry truck and poured down each hole manually, (70's before slurry trucks) usually 50 holes, diesel was added (Do not know any amounts or ratio) then the powder monkey dropped a type of detonator down each hole connected to cordite/cordex? The cordex??? linked all the holes and finally a length of fuse (Time to drive away to safe distance) was connected and ignited to set off the charges.
Somehow the charges were layed so the face holes exploded milliseconds before the row behind and so on so next 24 hours digging lay on quarry floor ready for the shovels to load the Haulpaks.
And as already mentioned we occasionally chilled our beer with a water AN when we ran out of ice when out on our boats.
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The damage that stuff has caused is huge, the last time the world saw an explosion like that was in 1945 over the skies of Japan,
Sky News just said they felt the shock waves 150 miles / 240 ks away,
They now have a food shortage because their imported food was stored in that area too, :flowers:
Sky News just said they felt the shock waves 150 miles / 240 ks away,
They now have a food shortage because their imported food was stored in that area too, :flowers:
Already answered by Nightjar.
Causes an endothermic reaction.
This is interesting, Maybe it got wet then there was a fire that set it off.
Googled it up.
Heating Dissolved Ammonium Nitrate
If you gently heat ammonium nitrate that has dissolved in water, the solution breaks down to release nitrous oxide, commonly called laughing gas. Known as thermal decomposition, when the solution decomposes into nitrous oxide and water vapor, this process requires a temperature of between 180 degrees Celsius (356 degrees Fahrenheit) to 250 degrees Celsius (482 degrees Fahrenheit). This should only be done under controlled, supervised conditions in a chemistry lab because ammonium nitrate can cause asphyxiation if too much of it is inhaled, and it can explode at high temperatures. Because solid ammonium nitrate can undergo explosive decomposition when heated in a confined space, its shipment and storage are subject to government regulations.
Causes an endothermic reaction.
This is interesting, Maybe it got wet then there was a fire that set it off.
Googled it up.
Heating Dissolved Ammonium Nitrate
If you gently heat ammonium nitrate that has dissolved in water, the solution breaks down to release nitrous oxide, commonly called laughing gas. Known as thermal decomposition, when the solution decomposes into nitrous oxide and water vapor, this process requires a temperature of between 180 degrees Celsius (356 degrees Fahrenheit) to 250 degrees Celsius (482 degrees Fahrenheit). This should only be done under controlled, supervised conditions in a chemistry lab because ammonium nitrate can cause asphyxiation if too much of it is inhaled, and it can explode at high temperatures. Because solid ammonium nitrate can undergo explosive decomposition when heated in a confined space, its shipment and storage are subject to government regulations.
Nightjar said:
Hey Peter, I think you may have meant cordtex. Cordite is an old straw like propellant used in old small arms ammunition ie: very old .303 cartridges. Cordtex is a plastic coated cord that has PETN as a filling and detonates at around 7000 metres per second.
To answer some of the other questions.
The ammonium nitrate in the Lebanon explosion had been sitting in that warehouse for several years going through many temperature changes and also breaking down more becoming more unstable.
The intitial explosion would have suspended the AN into the air creating the correct ratio of air to AN molecules. It doesn't take much to then ignite the mixture. We have levelled several old bunkers in the Middle East this way using about 250kg of propellant from artillery shells and dust which had accumulated over the years. The Americans that were with us couldn't believe what we were doing. They thought we were secretly adding HE until we actually showed them what we were doing.
Hope this explanation helps.
Cheers
Doug
