Hydrogen Powered Vehicles.

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Sorry folks, didn't want to derail the Lithium fires thread that got me thinking....
I played with this with my landcruiser years ago, got it going good, had a big bang in the shed showing someone that water was explosive!! ;):D

They have come leaps and bounds with Hydrogen now....

What do you think?
 
Had a neighbour ran his bike on a small unit on rear rack. Bit temperamental for me but as I value my butt 🤔 🤣
 
Check out the number of hydrogen filling stations in Oz.

In Australia there are currently 3 refuelling stations supplying hydrogen for sale to the public, although prior contact is required.

That is a direct quote from the Hydrogen Stations in Australia website relating to motor cars.
 
Probably has a bit of a future - one method is to mix a bit of hydrogen with a lot of gas, increasing its calorific value without increasing emissions in the slightest. I think you can mix up to 6% without major modification of equipment from memory.

Since we can make hydrogen from water it is definitely clean - produces zero carbon dioxide on burning. The issue at present is its economics.

.https://www.cefc.com.au/media/nhnhwlxu/australian-hydrogen-market-study.pdf
 
Probably doesn't matter what "saver" they come up with the big fuel corps will probably buy them out :rolleyes: Who remembers this guy ?

Yes. Unfortunately not really low emissions - you still use hydrocarbons etc to run the furnace to heat the steam. The difference is that you have no internal combustion in the cylinders, only in the furnace, but the gain in efficiency is small.
 
We had water injection on a Vangard way back. I was only a kid so probably 55 years ago.

I've always wondered why water won't burn when it consists of Hydrogen and Oxygen?
 
Water injection then was for de carboning combustion chamber, we still fit water injection to Turbo bikes we do to lower cylinder temps. The water does burn as when injection starts you can see the A/F ration lean as it does. We map for more fuel enrichment as injection starts. Probably getting a bit off track to the OP post ................... bugger 🤔
 
I'd like to get my hands on that steam powered engine to run my dryblower. Dust is a real problem with internal combustion engines and we make lots of dust. I can't see it affecting the boiler too much.
 
We had water injection on a Vangard way back. I was only a kid so probably 55 years ago.

I've always wondered why water won't burn when it consists of Hydrogen and Oxygen?
Because it is H2O not H2 plus O2. Same as carbon burns well but carbon dioxide does not, sodium explodes in water but sodium chloride sits happily on our fish and chips, phosphorous ignites in air but is a benign fertilizer in the form of phosphates.
What we term burning is really oxidation (reaction with oxygen) so hydrogen reacts with oxygen to give water - once it is water the "burning" has been done. Same story with carbon - once it reacts with oxygen (to give carbon dioxide) the "burning" has been done.
 
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I'd like to get my hands on that steam powered engine to run my dryblower. Dust is a real problem with internal combustion engines and we make lots of dust. I can't see it affecting the boiler too much.
Clean water might be an issue outside the city....
 
Hydrogen is more akin to an “energy storage” medium, than as a fuel per se.

Hydrogen cannot be mined (like hydrocarbon) and can really only be produced by expending some other form of energy. If you’re using grid power to produce it, you’re really just converting one energy source into another (kinda like charging a battery). Using the hydrogen is “clean” because burning it (combining it with oxygen), is really only producing water.

The biggest issue, is efficiently storing and carrying useful quantities of the stuff.Solve that problem, and you’ll be richer than Croesus
 
Hydrogen is more akin to an “energy storage” medium, than as a fuel per se.

Hydrogen cannot be mined (like hydrocarbon) and can really only be produced by expending some other form of energy. If you’re using grid power to produce it, you’re really just converting one energy source into another (kinda like charging a battery). Using the hydrogen is “clean” because burning it (combining it with oxygen), is really only producing water.

The biggest issue, is efficiently storing and carrying useful quantities of the stuff.Solve that problem, and you’ll be richer than Croesus

Hydrogen can be mined but this is not done in large quantities at this time (much of the worlds helium comes out of natural gas wells. "natural hydrogen (also known as native hydrogen)is generated by geological processes. Emanations of Hydrogen have been observed in many places. As a consequence, subsurface accumulations of hydrogen drilled “par hazard” and its direct extraction, although still anecdotal today, is beginning to be seriously considered as an abundant source of truly green and inexpensive H2 (Prinzhofer and Deville, 2015; Moretti, 2019)". Personally I am doubtful about this becoming a significant source of hydrogen.

There are four main sources for the commercial production of hydrogen: natural gas, oil, coal, and electrolysis; which account for 48%, 30%, 18% and 4% of the world's hydrogen production respectively. Fossil fuels are the dominant source of industrial hydrogen. One method is to put microbes into gas reservoirs where they convert hydrocarbons to hydrogen. Victoria has an experimental plant to produce it from brown coal. However most of these are not very green. The green method at the moment is producing it from water, but economics is the question.

People have visions of the burning Hindenberg, but it is not obvious that hydrogen is more dangerous than gas or petroleum (I would not know but simply read this).

https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/2017/03/17/so-just-how-dangerous-is-hydrogen-fuel/
Hydrogen is already used as a fuel for some vehicles and trains in Europe.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/coradia-ilint-hydrogen-trains/index.html
All fuels are "energy storage" mediums, and that includes hydrogen as you say. A major issue is whether nature provided the energy needed to produce the fuel store (petroleum, gas, coal) or whether we have to supply to supply the energy ourselves. For example, hydro power already has its potential energy supplied by nature, but pumped hydro requires us to provide energy by pumping it back uphill. But we do this by using natures solar energy during the day when we produce more than grid demand requires. The idea is much the same with green hydrogen produced from water (using solar during in the day).
In the end it comes down to the balance sheet.....everyone is screaming about increasing energy costs already, which gives some indication of what the market (humans) will bear.
 
Hydrogen can be mined but this is not done in large quantities at this time (much of the worlds helium comes out of natural gas wells. "natural hydrogen (also known as native hydrogen)is generated by geological processes. Emanations of Hydrogen have been observed in many places. As a consequence, subsurface accumulations of hydrogen drilled “par hazard” and its direct extraction, although still anecdotal today, is beginning to be seriously considered as an abundant source of truly green and inexpensive H2 (Prinzhofer and Deville, 2015; Moretti, 2019)". Personally I am doubtful about this becoming a significant source of hydrogen.

There are four main sources for the commercial production of hydrogen: natural gas, oil, coal, and electrolysis; which account for 48%, 30%, 18% and 4% of the world's hydrogen production respectively. Fossil fuels are the dominant source of industrial hydrogen. One method is to put microbes into gas reservoirs where they convert hydrocarbons to hydrogen. Victoria has an experimental plant to produce it from brown coal. However most of these are not very green. The green method at the moment is producing it from water, but economics is the question.

People have visions of the burning Hindenberg, but it is not obvious that hydrogen is more dangerous than gas or petroleum (I would not know but simply read this).

https://hydrogen.wsu.edu/2017/03/17/so-just-how-dangerous-is-hydrogen-fuel/
Hydrogen is already used as a fuel for some vehicles and trains in Europe.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/coradia-ilint-hydrogen-trains/index.html
All fuels are "energy storage" mediums, and that includes hydrogen as you say. A major issue is whether nature provided the energy needed to produce the fuel store (petroleum, gas, coal) or whether we have to supply to supply the energy ourselves. For example, hydro power already has its potential energy supplied by nature, but pumped hydro requires us to provide energy by pumping it back uphill. But we do this by using natures solar energy during the day when we produce more than grid demand requires. The idea is much the same with green hydrogen produced from water (using solar during in the day).
In the end it comes down to the balance sheet.....everyone is screaming about increasing energy costs already, which gives some indication of what the market (humans) will bear.
Absolutely true. I shouldn’t have stated things as I did. I was generalising (and clearly over-generalising way too much), but that’s not an excuse.
Thanks for the well-informed update/correction.
 
Interesting about how many colours hydrogen comes in these days.
Green
Blue
Grey
Black
Brown
Pink
Turquoise
Yellow
White.
Colourless - Thats the sort you get from pouring hydrochloric acid over zinc. When I was younger and playing with my chemistry set I realized that and much more when I put a match to a flask bubbling with it.
 
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Interesting about how many colours hydrogen comes in these days.
Green
Blue
Grey
Black
Brown
Pink
Turquoise
Yellow
White.
Colourless - Thats the sort you get from pouring hydrochloric acid over zinc. When I was younger and playing with my chemistry set I realized that and much more when I put a match to bubbling flask.
"Green" is now a suffix to the name of anything desirable - watch out for that "black" stuff sounds coaly or carbon-ish. Remember when we had habitat, surroundings, vicinity, landscape, countryside, domain, territory, abode, setting, scene, location, realm, preserve, province...it is so much easier to just dumb it down and say "environment" (and it sells better). I come from back in the days when "wetlands" were swamps......
 

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