HOT TOPIC ( to vaccinated or not to vaccinate)

[Ryan1981]

AngerManagement
I think the peanut allergy is a bit different than TB?

 

[Magilla]

We could always go back to the way it was 500 years ago when most men died before they were thirty. Ahhh the good old days. If more people that were against immunization actually went to the trouble of researching just how it works there would be a lot less opposition to it.

 

[Tricky Dick]

Hi there,
Wow, an interesting topic on a prospecting forum - I thought we're all infected with the gold fever?

'Her indoors' is a paediatrician and gets extremely frustrated at the non-immunisation folks, all readily accepting the conspiracy theories about drug companies perpetrating sickness to continue to make money. What seems to be forgotten is that kids who do get whooping cough (pertussis) can actually die from it (couple of deaths per year in Australia) and the other preventable diseases can impact on kids, if not kill them, through permanent brain damage, extensive stays in ICU, etc.

What seems to be forgotten also is that if everyone immunised their kids, some of these diseases could be completely eradicated (such as small pox and almost polio) which would result in much less sickness and disability in the world. But people seem to be motivated by selfishness or narcissism thinking that because of the many people that have immunised their children in previous generations we now enjoy much reduced risk of preventable diseases, so therefore, are prepared to skip this corporate responsibility to future generations to avoid their little Jonny getting a runny nose from the immunisation!

The striking thing I reckon is that it seems that most 'conscientious objectors' are educated and informed people that agonise over these decisions before deciding to not immunise their kids, and not people who are apathetic about getting around to it. Strange! I wouldn't want to sacrifice my children on my altar of self-righteousness to prove a point?

Don't get me started........

TD

 

[nuggetino]

Excellent points AngerManagement and thanks for covering my own point of view to a large degree on the matter. While I haven't had a cold or Flu since I was a child much like my father (freak immune system), if i did get extremely ill during flu season I wouldn't hesitate to take the flu shot. In the event I had a reaction worse than the flu itself from the vaccine I'd reconsider the following year. I have a friend who is a diehard naturopath. He was quick to mockmodern medicine for all the side effects and swore by his remedies until one day he got sick. Sick enough to need synthetic medicine and surgery to survive. Now that he's all better he's resumed his original stance on the matter..
Also it may be hard to beleive but humans aren't perfect. We screw up at everything sometimes and at best may get things right most of the time. Most of the time (with medicine) still works out better than doing nothing at all. Skepticism is still necessary though and even beneficial. If we took everything at face value there'd be no reason to get things right most of the time.

 

[nuggetino]

The one thing that does bother me, is the argument that if a vaccinated person comes in contact with another person that they could make the vaccinated person sick?

That doesn't make sense to me, I thought the vaccine was supposed to stop us getting sick/infected?

And if it doesn't , then why give it to us?

What happens when the virus mutates or build an immunity to the vaccine, I was reading about a strain of TB that is now mutated and is drug resistant to the vaccine.

I cant help feel that mother nature is going to kick our butts, unless we end up killing ourselves first.

I feel the same way. If the human population continues to grow my guess is it's just a matter of time before a new plague hits of a proportion we've never encountered.

 

[Ryan1981]

Guys id be completely screwed if it wasn't for modern medicine, as im a type 1 diabetic and need insulin to live,as i said in an earlier post im off the opinion, that people have opinions and agree with both sides of the debate on many issues that they might have.

Lets keep this topic civil
Cheers
Ryan

 

[AngerManagement]

1: The one thing that does bother me, is the argument that if a vaccinated person comes in contact with another person that they could make the vaccinated person sick?

###
2: What happens when the virus mutates or build an immunity to the vaccine, I was reading about a strain of TB that is now mutated and is drug resistant to the vaccine.
####
I cant help feel that mother nature is going to kick our butts, unless we end up killing ourselves first.

1: Interesting, never heard of that... What can happen is that some Vaccines can / should only be given at certain ages... Thus if your young and have not had a Vaccination, even if the rest of the family has. Then your still un protected and can catch whet ever it is !! So while you may be good for some items, if you went to South America; yellow fever will still kill you...

2: TB is treated with Antibiotics. IN PNG in the old days ( and maybe still) they hand out script, for a box of pills and tell the patient that this will fix him..

A: He / She can not afford a box - Local dispensary; not to let $ go out the door sell some, but not all.

B: Person may feel better after a few days... They tell a few mates and all of a sudden you have people using heavy antibiotics but only some and not a full course.

Then they can no longer obtain via buying and or steeling; as the good medical places try to manage missuse.

Black market for Antibiotics and Snake Anti-Venom is major and booming business. The fact that the products are spoilt or not real, does not stop people from trying to save their lives.

TB and Malaria = Top killers of our times = Approx 6M to 9M if not more...

3: Agree and it could be soon or not for a few years yet.

 

[Ryan1981]

1: The one thing that does bother me, is the argument that if a vaccinated person comes in contact with another person that they could make the vaccinated person sick?

###
2: What happens when the virus mutates or build an immunity to the vaccine, I was reading about a strain of TB that is now mutated and is drug resistant to the vaccine.
####
I cant help feel that mother nature is going to kick our butts, unless we end up killing ourselves first.

1: Interesting, never heard of that... What can happen is that some Vaccines can / should only be given at certain ages... Thus if your young and have not had a Vaccination, even if the rest of the family has. Then your still un protected and can catch whet ever it is !! So while you may be good for some items, if you went to South America; yellow fever will still kill you...

2: TB is treated with Antibiotics. IN PNG in the old days ( and maybe still) they hand out script, for a box of pills and tell the patient that this will fix him..

A: He / She can not afford a box - Local dispensary; not to let $ go out the door sell some, but not all.

B: Person may feel better after a few days... They tell a few mates and all of a sudden you have people using heavy antibiotics but only some and not a full course.

Then they can no longer obtain via buying and or steeling; as the good medical places try to manage missuse.

Black market for Antibiotics and Snake Anti-Venom is major and booming business. The fact that the products are spoilt or not real, does not stop people from trying to save their lives.

TB and Malaria = Top killers of our times = Approx 6M to 9M if not more...

3: Agree and it could be soon or not for a few years yet.

1-I hear people say it all the time, mostly from ppl that are pro-
2-Im aware they "TREAT" TB with Antibiotics,im talking about the BCG vaccine....
And the virus itself having mutated......

 

[peterau]

Most of my life got flu's in season. Havent had a real flu for last several years after starting annual flu needle. Will definitely keep getting them. Cheers peterau

 

[AngerManagement]

Viruses mutate all the time but it can take years.

However the miss use of Antibiotics does lots of harm.

A lot like the old saying " what does not kill you, makes you stronger"

Thus, when they become resistant to Antibotics the become a new strain. It is a good chance any previous vaccine will no longer work.

 

[Ryan1981]

yep, were screwed,lol

Maybe one day we will have all the answers,we have string theory now so,never know huh.

Science is awosome

 

[loamer]

Just read an interesting article in one of the recent editions of The Economist. 1963 - 400,000 cases of measles in the USA. Vaccine introduced. by 2013 - 100. Quotes a lot of other stats as well. An interesting observation was - a lot of diseases are rare now-days, therefore why vaccinate. Apparently as a society we need a 'herd' % immunised to cover those who are not - eg - if the majority of us are immunised therefore those who are not are less likley to get diseases. In the states of the US with high immunisation levels, 92% of kids for measles, the rate of infection is low - where it falls below this level, the rates of infection are higher. Very interesting reading, and like all things personal preference, however, kids really have no say do they? Its up to us to protect or not.

 

[Ryan1981]

Just read an interesting article in one of the recent editions of The Economist. 1963 - 400,000 cases of measles in the USA. Vaccine introduced. by 2013 - 100. Quotes a lot of other stats as well. An interesting observation was - a lot of diseases are rare now-days, therefore why vaccinate. Apparently as a society we need a 'herd' % immunised to cover those who are not - eg - if the majority of us are immunised therefore those who are not are less likley to get diseases. In the states of the US with high immunisation levels, 92% of kids for measles, the rate of infection is low - where it falls below this level, the rates of infection are higher. Very interesting reading, and like all things personal preference, however, kids really have no say do they? Its up to us to protect or not.

You hit the nail on the head there mate, The kids will inherit all our mistakes.

 

[silver]

We made sure it happened that way for ours, as it gives time for the immune system to recover properly from getting used to one villainous virus at a time.

For a planet of people that are mixing with different races vaccination is essential for survival.
Look what happened to the Natives of a lot of countries when the white man stepped in.

When it comes to children though its still essential but from what i have seen we need to avoid those "all in one" shots that seem to cause mental disorders.
Stick to individual shots and our children will be less at risk.

 

[silver]

And there is no cure or vaccination likely in the near or far future,....ya got it till it carries you of into the great void of which we know not.

Hi there,
Wow, an interesting topic on a prospecting forum - I thought we're all infected with the gold fever?

TD

 

[silver]

We all made sure that we got immunised for Swine flue, as that's a newie on the scene that mankind has no ability naturally in its arsenal of viral warfare to self protect with,... if it hit's and you've never been immunised against in the first place the likely hood of you dying is exte e e mely high, even if it has mutated at least the body has the ability to utilise what it has learned from the initial swine flu vaccination to come up with a remedy itself that will allow you to survive, even if you do end up sick for a while first,... without it, it's good bye prospecting fullstop.

 

[Moneybox]

I believe that they've done a good job with vaccination for major diseases in the past but they've gone overboard trying to beat the common flu.

I used to get through most years with no trouble until the two years I got the flu vaccine. Both years after the shot I was down and out with the flu symptoms like I'd never experienced before. I said never again and once again I'm back to good health and usually go through each year with no more than a runny nose during the spring. My son did the same only since the flu shots he's never had the same resistance to the bugs that go around. He used to dodge everything but it seems the flu shot damaged his immune system and now he gets crook each year with whatever is going around.

I would always caution healthy people with a healthy lifestyle against unnecessary vaccination for common annual bugs that go around. I think we need to develop a healthy immune system through natural exposure, good food and lots of fossicking...