Gold Kruzer questions...

[SonofOak]

So I managed to pick up a Gold Kruzer for a very reasonable price recently and I took it out today for the very first time with my 10yo.

I was able to ping solid metallic rubbish with ease - the tone was like a police siren going off - which led me to my first find, a bullet casing.

I found bits of fencing wire, a couple nails and some old broken down aluminium - all with ease.

But I'm wondering, does gold give off a similarly obvious signal? Or is it more of a subtle change in the 'threshold(?)'......and you can guage by the target ID #?

Reason I ask is, I have a small picker (tiny) that I panned out of Anderson's Creek, which I taped to a bit of cardboard to test out in the backyard....I really struggled to notice any change in the threshold!! - Which made me panic that it wasn't actually gold :lol:

I'm at the start of a long learning curve - so any feedback/input would be greatly appreciated....maybe I should join a detectorist club!

 

[kemjak57]

Gold generally rings up in the 40s on my machine and the signal is a fairly mellow sound compared to rubbish. Rubbish is around 20. Hot rocks high 90s or very low numbers. Hope this helps. Regards Rick

 

[XLOOX]

sounds like your picker is a bit smaller than the detectors minimum capability . There will be a minimum size that you can detect even if the target is touching the coil. how much does it weigh ?

Also whether it is a gold picker or a car body, if it is buried at the limit of detection for that size then you will get no ID number - just a threshold sound change.

You need a decent signal for the ID to work properly - I wouldnt put any faith in an ID with a 2 bar or less signal. Give it a scrape and get a better signal before making a call.

I have a couple of other posts under this section that explain the ID workings in more detail

 

[SonofOak]

....maybe .006g...when wet :lol:

 

[XLOOX]

I would be thrilled you got a peep !

 

[SonofOak]

Thanks for the responses, I'll get the hang of it I suppose - super keen to check out some mining areas.

 

[SonofOak]

...I don't think I'm getting the hang of it... :argh:

Today I went to the same spot I went to last weekend. Set to GEN mode, ground balanced and off I went. I'm finding I'm getting breaks in threshold all over the area.....then, when I thought I had a target, I did the old hand swipe past the coil until I had just loose dirt in my hand....then I threw the dirt away and detected my hand. Target ID 41! Then I did my other hand, same! Can someone please tell me what's going on before I lose my mind. :lol:

 

[OzzieAu]

Use a plastic scoop to pass your dirt over the coil.... your hand can indeed give a signal on a super sensitive vlf....

 

[Goldtarget]

So I managed to pick up a Gold Kruzer for a very reasonable price recently and I took it out today for the very first time with my 10yo.

I was able to ping solid metallic rubbish with ease - the tone was like a police siren going off - which led me to my first find, a bullet casing.

I found bits of fencing wire, a couple nails and some old broken down aluminium - all with ease.

But I'm wondering, does gold give off a similarly obvious signal? Or is it more of a subtle change in the 'threshold(?)'......and you can guage by the target ID #?

Reason I ask is, I have a small picker (tiny) that I panned out of Anderson's Creek, which I taped to a bit of cardboard to test out in the backyard....I really struggled to notice any change in the threshold!! - Which made me panic that it wasn't actually gold :lol:

I'm at the start of a long learning curve - so any feedback/input would be greatly appreciated....maybe I should join a detectorist club!

The truth is both a false positive and positive can give you a threshold break.

But let me start back a bit with vlfs. If you have a treasure detector the theory is the signal calibration is generally set to a known size target and the id will be shown as an intereptation that appears as a target ID.

Great for say a $2 coin thats shallow in mild soil because you will see a pretty consistent target ID as the composition of the metal alloy will register as a solid response.

Then add depth and ground mineralisation. Now the electronic signal has to go deeper and interept background responses when putting up an ID. Most modern vlfs are pretty good at this though.

But at a certain depth the return signal becomes too deep for it to be able to use a target ID. Any metallic object in that range can cause a threshold break with no ID but it will need to be big enough to be recieved as a return signal. But at that depth in hotter ground an arrangement of mineralisation can also cause the same effect.

Im not familiar with the set frequency or operation of the Gold Kruzer but my guess is its at the higher end as its meant to target a mid conductor in hotter soils. This will mean a gold target should be easier to produce a signal for the GK to respond to, but it will only show up in a band of numbers and have to be fairly shallow and of enough size to give a response suitable to be interepted as a piece of gold.

Probably great and fairly consistent on 1g shallow pieces but as depth increases and size decreases so does the ability of the machine to provide a consistent response.

If theres any advantage to be gained over say a PI, then its in its ability to give reasonably accurate IDs on known junk conductors, a bit of electronic sifting if you catch my drift.

You can go wherever you feel is the best use of your time but best to keep in mind the limitations of the machine youve selected.

For me its just like the gold rings, you gotta dig the beavertails and the pulltabs and a bit of foil knowing eventually with some patience and a dollop of luck one will pop out in time. The gold is the same challenge, just a different environment.

 

[XLOOX]

You can use your hand with a lot of PI machines but not with most modern VLF machines.

I just use 2 plastic scoops & a foolproof method of finding the target. Looks insanely complicated but actually very simple & fairly quick and you never dig a hole that is off target or lose the target and have to go find it again.

1) Get interesting noise . Stop & back away a foot or so
2) swing detector slowly whilst edging slowly forward 1inch per swing
3) As soon as get a positive signal draw line on ground with pick at FRONT edge of coil | ( doesnt mean target is there - just keep reading)
4) Walk to other side of line turn around, back off and repeat from 1) .. you now have 2 parallel lines ||
5) Repeat at 90 deg to the lines from both directions ... you now have 4 lines looking like a # symbol.
6) target lies in centre of the hash GUARANTEED. This method works regardless of whether the target is really detected at the edge or the centre of the coil, as long as you are dilgent at just marking front edge & doing all 4 lines.
7) Scrape 1" of soil off with pick and move it at least 6" away from the hole preferably a foot away
8) Swing detector over both hole & pile seperately. Signal must be in either pile or hole only unless you have multiple targets.
9) repeat 7 & 8 until signal is now in pile. It will be near where last soil added.
10) Split pile in 2 with pick & check both piles with detector. push aside pile with no signal.
11) keep splitting pile until small enough pile to attack with scoop.
12) use plastic scoop - Fiskars fibreglass ones from Bunnings are perfect. Scoop & wave over detector.
13) when get signal in scoop then pour 1/2 scoop into another plastic scoop. Check BOTH scoops each time. If you get a signal in one scoop dont assume that there isnt one in the other. Check it too.
14) throw away scoop with no signal. Repeat 13 using both scoops until target found.

you can find tiny tiny targets this way without losing them.

If a target seems to break up and become lots of targets it is either hot rocks,bits of rusty tin or a bunch of nails.

Also you say "breaks in threshold" . Until you have had a 100hrs under your belt with any machine you probably need a better signal than that to start digging else you are going to misidentify lots of false signals and get frustrated looking for something that isnt there.

 

[SonofOak]

Great, thanks for the info guys, slowly piecing this puzzle together.

 

[DataGlasses]

You can use your hand with a lot of PI machines but not with most modern VLF machines.

I just use 2 plastic scoops & a foolproof method of finding the target. Looks insanely complicated but actually very simple & fairly quick and you never dig a hole that is off target or lose the target and have to go find it again.

1) Get interesting noise . Stop & back away a foot or so
2) swing detector slowly whilst edging slowly forward 1inch per swing
3) As soon as get a positive signal draw line on ground with pick at FRONT edge of coil | ( doesnt mean target is there - just keep reading)
4) Walk to other side of line turn around, back off and repeat from 1) .. you now have 2 parallel lines ||
5) Repeat at 90 deg to the lines from both directions ... you now have 4 lines looking like a # symbol.
6) target lies in centre of the hash GUARANTEED. This method works regardless of whether the target is really detected at the edge or the centre of the coil, as long as you are dilgent at just marking front edge & doing all 4 lines.
7) Scrape 1" of soil off with pick and move it at least 6" away from the hole preferably a foot away
8) Swing detector over both hole & pile seperately. Signal must be in either pile or hole only unless you have multiple targets.
9) repeat 7 & 8 until signal is now in pile. It will be near where last soil added.
10) Split pile in 2 with pick & check both piles with detector. push aside pile with no signal.
11) keep splitting pile until small enough pile to attack with scoop.
12) use plastic scoop - Fiskars fibreglass ones from Bunnings are perfect. Scoop & wave over detector.
13) when get signal in scoop then pour 1/2 scoop into another plastic scoop. Check BOTH scoops each time. If you get a signal in one scoop dont assume that there isnt one in the other. Check it too.
14) throw away scoop with no signal. Repeat 13 using both scoops until target found.

you can find tiny tiny targets this way without losing them.

If a target seems to break up and become lots of targets it is either hot rocks,bits of rusty tin or a bunch of nails.

Also you say "breaks in threshold" . Until you have had a 100hrs under your belt with any machine you probably need a better signal than that to start digging else you are going to misidentify lots of false signals and get frustrated looking for something that isnt there.

have you ever dug on sound alone? I.e ...... no numbers

 

[XLOOX]

Yes of course, on repeatable localised threshold waver.

But on any even half decent target once you start scraping then you generally only need to remove 25mm to get a flickering number, another 50mm for a solid number.

Exception is if you have a sub grain target on surface which is so small you can only pick it up when right next to coil with a waver only. You know when that is the case because on 1st scrape the signal is gone and you have to carefully go thru the scrape pile with only a little in scoop at a time dribbling it directly onto the top centre of the coil in order to find it again.

if you cant find it again then it must have been right on surface originally and so microscopic that a couple of mm of dirt on the coil is enough to lose the signal. At that point who cares.

The important bit on starting to dig on small threshold breaks alone is understanding your machine well enough to make a probability call - yeah prob target, nah prob ground noise.

You can only get to the point where you are right most of the time by experience ie time on the machine. If you have had a few MDs then you know what you are trying to learn and how to learn it but if you are new to the game you need to start by digging solid signals only as you will quickly get discouraged digging marginal signals as many of them will be false.. thats why they are called marginal.

It is highly frustrating and time wasting chasing a ground signal that you mis identify as a target. You keep digging and moving dirt and waving the detector which is is beeping when you wave it like this but not like that, the signal that was in the hole is now not in the hole or the pile but there is another signal 6 inches away.......an hour later you have pock marked the area and nothing to show for it.
Grrr stupid detector doesnt work !!! No the detector works fine, you just mis interpreted what it was telling you.