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First interesting finds! and Question re identification

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UnderEmployedGeo

UnderEmployedGeo

Gold Gold Gold
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, VIC
Apart from the 1860 lion half penny (John Andrew And Co General Drapers issue), which is a fabulous find...

I came across the strangest "nugget" ever. Is this lead? Silver? Just slag or a weirdly deformed bullet????? It weighs nearly an ounce! (29 grams). I wish it were yellow. Maybe if I paint it... haha

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1610526282_pxl_20210113_081946246.jpg
 
I'd guess it's molten lead considering it's pretty small and the colour and weight, but how it got there is another question. Far too big to be shrapnel from a bullet and not the right shape to come from an artillery or anti tank round plus unless you were anywhere near a military range that wouldn't be likely. Awesome shape for a nugget though.
 
Gold Mbr2020 said:
I'd guess it's molten lead considering it's pretty small and the colour and weight, but how it got there is another question. Far too big to be shrapnel from a bullet and not the right shape to come from an artillery or anti tank round plus unless you were anywhere near a military range that wouldn't be likely. Awesome shape for a nugget though.
Click to expand...

This is from near Daylesford (Old Toms) - unless people where packing canons I can't see it lol. Yes could be molten lead - perhaps someone was making bullets here back in the day and this was some spillage. Assuming it is in fact lead.
 
UnderEmployedGeo said:
mbasko said:
Bullet shrapnel
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Really? how would it get so deformed and nugget-like? And 29 grams seems a lot for shrapnel?
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The weight of an old minie ball projectile could be up to ~32 grams
Historynet said:
"The Mini ball, or Minie ball, is a type of bullet used extensively in the American Civil War. The muzzle-loading rifle bullet was named after its co-developer, Claude-tienne Mini."

"The soft lead that allowed Minie balls to expand within the rifle barrel also caused them to flatten out and/or splinter when they hit a target"
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I've found several of them around old diggings mostly intact or slightly flattened but I've found a few that were flattened right out. Maybe hit large rocks etc.?
At first look I thought of them due to the rounded centre (where the hole is) & how it's split/flattened out.
On second look I'd probably more agree with MBR as molten lead.
 
G'day

Looks like lead to me, back in the day apart from bullets many cans and tin items were sealed or joined with lead solder, so it could just also be from a campfire or rubbish pile that was burnt, could even be old battery lead as well, I have found large lead pieces very similar to that many times, most are early projectiles and easily identified but but some look very nugget like when you first dig them :inlove: and its a tad disappointing when you rub the dirt of them :awful:

cheers

stayyerAU
 
goldierocks said:
As a geo you would know that SG and hardness are critical info - otherwise everyone is guessing....
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Well yes, though I don't even have a measuring flask or anything to actually measure SG, and who the hell carries around a set of Mohs Hardness testing tools! :p NOT ME, and I'm a geologist! It's not something I ever used professionally - hand waving and having more opinions than there were geos in the room, now that's more like it!
 
UnderEmployedGeo said:
goldierocks said:
As a geo you would know that SG and hardness are critical info - otherwise everyone is guessing....
Click to expand...
Well yes, though I don't even have a measuring flask or anything to actually measure SG, and who the hell carries around a set of Mohs Hardness testing tools! :p NOT ME, and I'm a geologist! It's not something I ever used professionally - hand waving and having more opinions than there were geos in the room, now that's more like it!
Click to expand...
The hardness is easily tested - lead can be readily scratched by a gold coin, unlike other metals. Very few geologists carry Moh testing kits - you only need your fingernail, gold coin, steel needle and a bit of quartz for most things. Lead has a hardness of 1.5, so even gypsum and calcite will scratch it. A fingernail is 2.5 so even it can scratch lead. If it is slightly alloyed with something in a synthetic alloy it might be a bit harder, but still very soft compared to other metals.

The arm-waving starts once some properties are known :playful:
 
I have always struggled with getting much useful info from density since when faced with a heavyish-for-size lump of grey metal my question is mainly is it silver or is it lead.

SG of Pb=11.4 & Ag=10.5 so a 5g nugget of lead has a volume of 0.44ml & silver 0.48ml. Even a 30g nugget is 2.68ml vs 2.86ml

Good luck measuring to 0.04ml or even 0.18ml precision on a measuring cylider with a diameter big enough to take your nugget & even if you get a result you believe to be an accurate SG then so what? - with the strong likelihood that the silver or lead is alloyed the SG you get is not that helpful in differentiating the two metals.

Add in the impact of crevices holding micro air bubbles & dirt or meniscus & wetting issues if using mass of overflow methods & it is not generally not worth the effort in measuring SG on small lumps unless you suspect Pt (SG 21.5) & even then with a 5g nugget it only 0.21ml difference.

Hardness is a very strong indicator & melting point is a clincher as all Pb/Sn/Sb/Bi alloys will have MUCH lower melting points than any grey Cu/Ag/Au alloy (which would have to be at least 70% Ag to be grey).
 
Yeah, given that that the main question (is it gold?) is already answered in the negative, I personally I'm not gonna go crazy investigating what else it might be. Really it comes down to lead/silver and lead is many times more likely (native silver being quite rare). Platinum almost impossible unless you were in a known platinum area. All fascinating stuff tho!

I was more curious to hear about others finding similar or happening to know.... which has been answered I think, thanks all!
 

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