condor22
Mike
Good luck with that, lol. I don't know of any solar regulator that will do it properly. AGM profile will work, but the long term affect on battery life is the unknown.
DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES and BUSH POWER
- Thread starter condor22
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Gravity, This technology is beyond my experience however this advertisement popped up;
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/20A-Sol...-/313109450899?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/20A-Sol...-/313109450899?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
condor22
Mike
At $21 and no specs, not something I'd look at NJ. I'd want to protect close to $1,000 of investment with a bit more than a 20 dollar controller, lol.
Zoomed in on the pic and the controller states "Suits only Lead Acid, Open, AGM, Gel batteries". No mention of Lithium other than the Ebay iten Title.
Zoomed in on the pic and the controller states "Suits only Lead Acid, Open, AGM, Gel batteries". No mention of Lithium other than the Ebay iten Title.
Condor, :8 Just bought one (my old PWM died?), however I am not using a lithium battery. 
layful:
The AGM has been delivering for 5+ years with the old PWM, however, now I can't switch off the auxiliary power manually so it was time for a new one.
Time will tell if it is a duffer.
layful:The AGM has been delivering for 5+ years with the old PWM, however, now I can't switch off the auxiliary power manually so it was time for a new one.
Time will tell if it is a duffer.
condor22
Mike
Oki, hope you get a good run NJ I didn't have solar on my last vehicle AGM only DC-DC when engine on, got 10 years from it.
Unfortunately when it comes to, as you put it, "duffers", there are usually 2 ways to tell; 1. It doesn't perform in which case you lose $20, or, 2. It appears to perform and at some future point your battery dies. Hopefully at its natural age, but if it dies too young the $20 bargain ends up costing several $100 dollars in battery.
I didn't have solar on my last vehicle AGM only DC-DC when engine on, got 10 years from it.Unfortunately when it comes to, as you put it, "duffers", there are usually 2 ways to tell; 1. It doesn't perform in which case you lose $20, or, 2. It appears to perform and at some future point your battery dies. Hopefully at its natural age, but if it dies too young the $20 bargain ends up costing several $100 dollars in battery.
Nightjar said:
Sounds like fishy sale-that price????
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Found the correct charger but think i'm going to have to put on hold till the next camp out in March as I'm also after the 240V mains charger and 1000W Inverter :/
https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...p-intelligent-solar-regulator-with-lcd-screen
30 AMP INTELLIGENT SOLAR REGULATOR WITH LCD SCREEN
Regular price $39.00
ITECHBC40 BATTERY CHARGER 40 AMP 12V ITECHWORLD FOR CAR, BOAT, CARAVAN
Regular price$549.00 Sale price$499.00 Save $50.00
https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...er-40-amp-12v-itechworld-for-car-boat-caravan
INVERTER 1000 WATT 12V PURE SINE WAVE WITH REMOTE CONTROL ITECH1000W
Regular price$499.00 Sale price$249.00 Save $250.00
https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...t-pure-sine-wave-inverter-with-remote-control
https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...p-intelligent-solar-regulator-with-lcd-screen
30 AMP INTELLIGENT SOLAR REGULATOR WITH LCD SCREEN
Regular price $39.00
ITECHBC40 BATTERY CHARGER 40 AMP 12V ITECHWORLD FOR CAR, BOAT, CARAVAN
Regular price$549.00 Sale price$499.00 Save $50.00
https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...er-40-amp-12v-itechworld-for-car-boat-caravan
INVERTER 1000 WATT 12V PURE SINE WAVE WITH REMOTE CONTROL ITECH1000W
Regular price$499.00 Sale price$249.00 Save $250.00
https://itechworld.com.au/collectio...t-pure-sine-wave-inverter-with-remote-control
condor22
Mike
Gravity said:
Gravity,
1. If you are charging from a 120 W solar blanket, you max output will be around 7.0 amps, so you don't need a 30 A controller.
2. The one you link to is PWM, you will get 10-25% more out of an MPPT.
3. The profiles in the 30 A still hit a Lithium at up to 14.4 volts.
4. The 40 A mains charger hits a Lithium profile at 14.6 V.
Be aware that if you use all or most of 1000W from an inverter, you can draw up to 100 amps from a battery. Most of what I need 240 VAC for I can get from a 150W inverter, anything higher, I crank up the genny lol.
The easy calculation to know what amps a battery provides to an inverter is to divide the W by 10 not 12 as there is an efficiency loss. i.e. My first van was fitted with a 300W inverter so 300 / 12 = 25 amps. But I know from measurement that it used 27.5 amps = a 10% loss.
bicter
Terry
Without knowing the solar input specs, the regulator below should suit.condor22 said:
https://au.renogy.com/rover-elite-20a-mppt-solar-charge-controller/
I also understand, without doing deeper research, that the Plasmatronic Dingo 40/40 can be reprogrammed for lithium
condor22
Mike
bicter said:
I've checked the manual for this controller. From what I see the Li profile is one of Boost mode only and the output voltage is adjustable from 12.6 to 16 V.
In a normal AGM mode there are 3 stages Boost, Absorption and Float where volts and amps vary during the charge cycle. (I won't go into the detail, already done that.
) However a LiPo Lithium deep cycle is best charged with one cycle, Boost. That's all it needs, but many chargers that state Li profile charge at the high end of voltage in the mid 14 volts.With this controller, I would set the Li profile Boost voltage to 13.8 volts to give the best care of the battery. I would anticipate that if enough solar goes in, the battery would achieve the 98-99% charge level and that would be good enough for me.
Well found Bicter, It's the first Li adjustable controller I've seen. Will see what else I can find about it.
Not a bad price either. $100.Edit - I'll show my mate the specs, see what he says.
bicter
Terry
condor22 said:bicter said:
I've checked the manual for this controller. From what I see the Li profile is one of Boost mode only and the output voltage is adjustable from 12.6 to 16 V.
In a normal AGM mode there are 3 stages Boost, Absorption and Float where volts and amps vary during the charge cycle. (I won't go into the detail, already done that.
With this controller, I would set the Li profile Boost voltage to 13.8 volts to give the best care of the battery. I would anticipate that if enough solar goes in, the battery would achieve the 98-99% charge level and that would be good enough for me.
Well found Bicter, It's the first Li adjustable controller I've seen. Will see what else I can find about it.
Edit - I'll show my mate the specs, see what he says.
Condor, I'm a bit confused by your reply.
Which controller did u check the manual on and which are you suggesting is adjustable?
As I
Have a read of this article for some background on LiFeP04 charging https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/a-designer-guide-fast-lithium-ion-battery-charging (Note it is dated 2016-09-01 and change/development is continually occurring.)
condor22
Mike
The Rover Elite 20 A controller is the one I checked. I'm currently looking at the Rover 20 which is $30 more.
The Elite 20 shows the Lithium profile, Boost Stage as being adjustable on page 21 of the manual and the only Stage for Li charging.
No haven't read the article, but will a little later, I'm a bloke, lol, only one thing at a time according to my wife.
Edit. Just browsed the Rover 20. It appears to have additional peripherals, such as temp sensor, bluetooth module and data logging. It does not appear to have adjustable Li Boost voltage adjustment and its Boost voltage is 14.4 V.
The Elite 20 shows the Lithium profile, Boost Stage as being adjustable on page 21 of the manual and the only Stage for Li charging.
No haven't read the article, but will a little later, I'm a bloke, lol, only one thing at a time according to my wife.
Edit. Just browsed the Rover 20. It appears to have additional peripherals, such as temp sensor, bluetooth module and data logging. It does not appear to have adjustable Li Boost voltage adjustment and its Boost voltage is 14.4 V.
condor22
Mike
Just browsed the attached article. It refers to Li-ion charging, We are discussing LiFP04 deep cycle, there is a difference.
The article may be of interest to those using a 3.6 L-ion battery in a SDC2300.
Here's a link to some different types, noting 6 different chemical compositions.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn...t3OFn4ytG1rYnf3rSTJ5rCPm0Olhsb4awqIszOHomi8jg
The article may be of interest to those using a 3.6 L-ion battery in a SDC2300.
Here's a link to some different types, noting 6 different chemical compositions.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn...t3OFn4ytG1rYnf3rSTJ5rCPm0Olhsb4awqIszOHomi8jg
condor22
Mike
I found the chart below on the internet. It is relevant to a nominal 3.4 volt cell, so multiply by 4 for a 12 V battery.
It is also specifically for a LiFePO4 battery.
From - https://www.powerstream.com/LLLF.htm
Of note, if you look at the red line in the chart, Charging Voltage (CV) it is fairly constant until the battery is around 95% full.
The blue line, which is charging current, is constant throughout the cycle.
Where it changes is the last 5%, where a significant voltage increase occurs to push in the final bit of charge. This is where, in my previous posts, I question why stress the battery for that little bit extra. My mate has access to a lot of tech data as well as his own testing that shows the BMS in the Lithium he stocks will get to 98%+ just on 13.8 V. Also, although a constant current charger may be used, the battery's own BMS will limit and adjust what current it needs.
So, 13.8 V/4 = 3.45 V, which is the mean voltage shown in the chart. Proving that the 13.8 V power supply mode of a good charger is best to charge a LiFePO4 battery. Plus, they can be charged in one stage, not 3 as is the case with an AGM.
Logic then suggests that DC-DC and Solar charging are no different in context.
It is also specifically for a LiFePO4 battery.
From - https://www.powerstream.com/LLLF.htm
Of note, if you look at the red line in the chart, Charging Voltage (CV) it is fairly constant until the battery is around 95% full.
The blue line, which is charging current, is constant throughout the cycle.
Where it changes is the last 5%, where a significant voltage increase occurs to push in the final bit of charge. This is where, in my previous posts, I question why stress the battery for that little bit extra. My mate has access to a lot of tech data as well as his own testing that shows the BMS in the Lithium he stocks will get to 98%+ just on 13.8 V. Also, although a constant current charger may be used, the battery's own BMS will limit and adjust what current it needs.
So, 13.8 V/4 = 3.45 V, which is the mean voltage shown in the chart. Proving that the 13.8 V power supply mode of a good charger is best to charge a LiFePO4 battery. Plus, they can be charged in one stage, not 3 as is the case with an AGM.
Logic then suggests that DC-DC and Solar charging are no different in context.
Condorcondor22 said:
Fitted this one yesterday into my box of tricks, working a treat. Can once again manually turn off load. Something we do sometimes over night when temps are touching zero.
Btw. Not using lithium battery.
condor22
Mike
NJ Good to hear it's working well.
I actually do not use the load terminals of a solar controller, either 4x4 or van. Their primary use is for small loads such as lighting. On the better controllers the load can be timer programmed such as turning lights on after dark and off again at dawn. Given my total loads, the controllers will not handle all of that through the load terminals.
I recently rehashed my van, it came fitted with a battery on/off switch, which, believe it or not was actually a 240 VAC switch. Some of what I added went directly to the battery i.e. the diesel heater, a couple of cig sockets and my small inverter 32 V plug socket. Which meant I could not isolate these through that switch. They also had inline fuses.
My fix - I installed a 12 x fuse block rated at 100 A total and 30 A individual. Removed the 240 VAC switch and put in a 25 A DC toggle switch to feed the fuse block from battery. Then re-terminated everything (all loads) to the fuse block. I already had circuit breakers on each panel so can isolate them.
At the flick of a switch I can totally isolate the battery from all loads. As the 240 VAC charger is already switchable and remotely as well, it doesn't go through the fuse block.
If I turn on every light in the van, shower fan and range hood, total load is 16 A. TV area all on = 4.2 A, Heater start up = 10 A, inverter max = 14 A, water pump up to 6 A for a total everything on = approx 50 amps max. However I looked at what I use, when I use it and in a number of scenarios and could not get higher than 15 A. That was during heater start up. My normal load up is around 5 A max, peaking at a bit over 10 A if I use the water pump. I rarely use the inverter and to remind, the fridge is a 3 way. In effect, my normal max loadup is 50% of individual fuse capacity and max load also 50% f fuse block capacity.
This is how I sized the fuse block and the on/off switch. That in mind is also what I did in the 4x4, albiet with a 6 x fuse block and all loads through it. As it is in the box I made and all plug n play I can quickly isolate with Anderson plug removal, so no switch.
I actually do not use the load terminals of a solar controller, either 4x4 or van. Their primary use is for small loads such as lighting. On the better controllers the load can be timer programmed such as turning lights on after dark and off again at dawn. Given my total loads, the controllers will not handle all of that through the load terminals.
I recently rehashed my van, it came fitted with a battery on/off switch, which, believe it or not was actually a 240 VAC switch. Some of what I added went directly to the battery i.e. the diesel heater, a couple of cig sockets and my small inverter 32 V plug socket. Which meant I could not isolate these through that switch. They also had inline fuses.
My fix - I installed a 12 x fuse block rated at 100 A total and 30 A individual. Removed the 240 VAC switch and put in a 25 A DC toggle switch to feed the fuse block from battery. Then re-terminated everything (all loads) to the fuse block. I already had circuit breakers on each panel so can isolate them.
At the flick of a switch I can totally isolate the battery from all loads. As the 240 VAC charger is already switchable and remotely as well, it doesn't go through the fuse block.
If I turn on every light in the van, shower fan and range hood, total load is 16 A. TV area all on = 4.2 A, Heater start up = 10 A, inverter max = 14 A, water pump up to 6 A for a total everything on = approx 50 amps max. However I looked at what I use, when I use it and in a number of scenarios and could not get higher than 15 A. That was during heater start up. My normal load up is around 5 A max, peaking at a bit over 10 A if I use the water pump. I rarely use the inverter and to remind, the fridge is a 3 way. In effect, my normal max loadup is 50% of individual fuse capacity and max load also 50% f fuse block capacity.
This is how I sized the fuse block and the on/off switch. That in mind is also what I did in the 4x4, albiet with a 6 x fuse block and all loads through it. As it is in the box I made and all plug n play I can quickly isolate with Anderson plug removal, so no switch.
Condor, You know what you're talking about but it is a foreign language to me. (If I blow a fuse, I've got something wrong, move a few wires until it's right. :lol: layful: )
This little PWM (The old one is in photo) is hooked up to a 60+solar panel on roof of ute and a 110AH under tray. When we move away from the camp and start prospecting I plug a portable 200W folding solar, once again in series that feeds the battery through the MPPT in photo.
Running from this battery is the "box of tricks", on tray of ute, old photo, 4500 days. Now modified for the SDC & 7K, have to take another photo.
Every thing is fused, box hidden behind gauges.
The new PWM has an adjustable auto load cut out which I adjusted from 10.6V to 11.5V and as mentioned a manual cut off.
Will see how it goes but at this stage it is doing everything I need.
The caravan has a Morning Star controller to two 110AH batteries. Fitted it back in 2010 because I fitted two solar panels in series and the old PWM wouldn't handle the extra voltage. Don't ask me how the Morning Star operates, took me a month of Sundays to come to grips with the settings. Haven't touched it for 10 years after setting it up. All I need is the read out next to the bed that shows me the voltage every morning. There are zillions of settings and readouts but I'm from the old KISS school.
layful: )This little PWM (The old one is in photo) is hooked up to a 60+solar panel on roof of ute and a 110AH under tray. When we move away from the camp and start prospecting I plug a portable 200W folding solar, once again in series that feeds the battery through the MPPT in photo.
Running from this battery is the "box of tricks", on tray of ute, old photo, 4500 days. Now modified for the SDC & 7K, have to take another photo.
Every thing is fused, box hidden behind gauges.
The new PWM has an adjustable auto load cut out which I adjusted from 10.6V to 11.5V and as mentioned a manual cut off.
Will see how it goes but at this stage it is doing everything I need.
The caravan has a Morning Star controller to two 110AH batteries. Fitted it back in 2010 because I fitted two solar panels in series and the old PWM wouldn't handle the extra voltage. Don't ask me how the Morning Star operates, took me a month of Sundays to come to grips with the settings. Haven't touched it for 10 years after setting it up. All I need is the read out next to the bed that shows me the voltage every morning. There are zillions of settings and readouts but I'm from the old KISS school.
condor22
Mike
Me too, it does the job, all that counts.
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I have been running my Small Dometic 18L Fridge from 2x 115Ah leisure batteries and So far I am up to 101 hours 48 minutes OR 4 days 5hrs 48mins and the batteries are still reading 12.523v after 1hr 20mins +/- rest between cycles and according to many battery charts say that the 2 batteries are still at 85%,
The Batteries are linked using factory made 4AWG cables 600mm long and I have hooked up the fridge on the Negative of one battery and the Positive from the other battery so they are sharing equal load,
During the run cycle the voltage drops about 0.221 to 0.222v and the recovery period is only as long until the next start up period which is normally 81 to 87 minutes later and after each duty cycle the batteries voltage is only dropping 0.005v,
These 2 batteries are around 3 and a half years old now and they still hold very high voltage after 24 hours from being taken off charge, Which is why they will run the fridge for a few days long before the batteries get down to 12.70v.
The Batteries are linked using factory made 4AWG cables 600mm long and I have hooked up the fridge on the Negative of one battery and the Positive from the other battery so they are sharing equal load,
During the run cycle the voltage drops about 0.221 to 0.222v and the recovery period is only as long until the next start up period which is normally 81 to 87 minutes later and after each duty cycle the batteries voltage is only dropping 0.005v,
These 2 batteries are around 3 and a half years old now and they still hold very high voltage after 24 hours from being taken off charge, Which is why they will run the fridge for a few days long before the batteries get down to 12.70v.
