Beach detecting banned on Gold Coast?

[Westaus]

Without going to far, but councils have no rights to issue fines anyway ! But that's another story. It's a bit like photography, another one of my hobbies. The fear and panic if I bring my camera out anywhere, you would think if I really had the intention of taking sneaky photo's I wouldn't pull out a huge Canon and make it obvious, unlike the person who seems to be innocently texting while taking photo's ? Or has a new small super zoom with 1200mm zoom capacity.

The whole country has gone mad with this fear and that everyone is a bad person. Look at the new terrorist laws and other internet laws. People if you think this is for your protection then think again, land of the free that we ain't. For those of you that say, well I don't do anything wrong so I have nothing to worry about, that is great because pretty soon you will have NOTHING so you won't need to worry about it.

The power is with the people and the minorities know this, why do they get all the air time. We as a group should be standing up and supporting our local prospecting groups and the ones that have connections with the key decision makers, or pretty soon you will not be able to do anything. I feel sorry for all those parents who have missed out on hundreds of memories of their kids events because some paranoid person thinks taking photo's make us all bad... Pretty soon we may miss out on taking our kids or friends and enjoying our Prospecting hobby as well.

As someone mentioned before we thought it was crazy that they would ban smoking, guess what they have in most places now, they are talking about getting their hands on our super, and they will eventually. Next we will all be on CCTV it will be installed in your TV's (is already in some) and then the good old prospecting gets under the noses of some big shot council members, and they make a stand. Now we have a precedence and we are all now extremely limited to our recreation.

Sorry for the rant but this type of stuff just gets under my nose. It is always some numb skull that ruins it for everyone and it only takes a law to sneak through and we are all seriously effected

 

[kleinman98]

If this is the case then who is going to remove all the rubbish, sharps, tent pegs, bottle caps, hairpins, etc.
I get thanked everytime I detect the beaches and people realise what I am really doing for them. If a council ranger stops me, i will just show him or her my finds and I am not doing it for the money.

 

[Sandta]

If this is the case then who is going to remove all the rubbish, sharps, tent pegs, bottle caps, hairpins, etc.
I get thanked everytime I detect the beaches and people realise what I am really doing for them. If a council ranger stops me, i will just show him or her my finds and I am not doing it for the money.

Rubbish? What rubbish?
There isnt any of those things on our beaches
And when all those items are finally noticed...
Are people going to be banned from the beach altogether?
amazingly it seems that a brain dead minority always find their way into a position of power
Credentials ? :lol:

 

[Goldpick]

YES...

This was posted in 2010...

If you read it you will see how most break the rules....

Thank you for your inquiry regarding metal detecting on Gold Coast beaches. Council permits metal detecting on the beaches subject to the following conditions:
1. It is not to be carried out in close proximity to people relaxing on the beach.
2. There is to be no interference with other people using the beach or in the water at any time.
3. Directions from Council lifeguards are to be complied with at all times.
4. Other beach users are to be treated with courtesy.

It is all about using a Detector to Detect the presence of items....

AT NO STAGE, does it cover off on the recovery of any items and what is or is not allowed... Thus you can detect as per 1 to 4 but you can not perform any recovery...

Simple...

Where does it say you cannot carry out recovery, you cannot expect to abide by unwritten terms or conditions - the question was asked on whether detecting was indeed allowed on the beaches, and it was confirmed as "yes". Any reasonable person would expect that would included detection and recovery of an item, otherwise it is completely pointless in he first place.

In this case the person involved has not made any assumptions, and has taken appropriate action by contacting the council directly to get confirmation on what is appropriate - if the council deems recovery not appropriate, then they should mention it as a part of those conditions.

As far as I can see from those conditions, it has everything to do with respecting other beach goers, and complying with council appointed lifeguard's instructions, nothing stipulating on how you should go about the actual process of detecting ( outside lifeguard flagged areas). If they say detecting is allowed, then you would expect that would include the full process of detecting and recovery of an item.

 

[GaryO]

YES...

This was posted in 2010...

If you read it you will see how most break the rules....

Thank you for your inquiry regarding metal detecting on Gold Coast beaches. Council permits metal detecting on the beaches subject to the following conditions:
1. It is not to be carried out in close proximity to people relaxing on the beach.
2. There is to be no interference with other people using the beach or in the water at any time.
3. Directions from Council lifeguards are to be complied with at all times.
4. Other beach users are to be treated with courtesy.

It is all about using a Detector to Detect the presence of items....

AT NO STAGE, does it cover off on the recovery of any items and what is or is not allowed... Thus you can detect as per 1 to 4 but you can not perform any recovery...

Simple...

Where does it say anything about recovery .. :/

 

[AngerManagement]

- Where does it say you cannot carry out recovery, you cannot expect to abide by unwritten terms or conditions - the question was asked on whether detecting was indeed allowed on the beaches, and it was confirmed as "yes".

Any reasonable person would expect that would included detection and recovery of an item, otherwise it is completely pointless in he first place.

you would expect that would include the full process of detecting and recovery of an item.

NO, that is an assumption that will get you in to trouble and so wrong... As it does not define how you will manage the recovery. And I would not let a number of those using detectors on my yard let alone a park... Because their recovery process is rubbish and they leave a mess... And yes, some people do detect but not do recovery... I know of a few

As per many other places such as Ireland for example = Two licences One for Detecting and One for Recovery.

In the UK and USA many a detectorist has run fowl of permissions; as they have forgotten to confirm the recovery process and how the finds are managed...

Look at you Miners rights and Fossicking - How you dig and with what is defined.... Metal detecting ??? Assumptions and word of mouth is not good enough... And how many bother to read the notes that are included with new equipment - Yes even the suppliers advise about doing teh right thing etc WHY = So the user can not sue the supplier when things go to crap....

Having chatted to a senior governmental person who is in the environmental sect in Qld and my lawyer - They both agreed that the issue is about the recovery process...

And as there are more and more people digging holes to china and not filling and or digging in dune restoration sections - the councils/other members of the public are getting pissed..... And no, Do not tell me that does not happen... it does every day of the week.

If you are detecting and respecting personal space and property - NOTHING they can say or do..

And I will say it again for clarity...

Thus you can detect in most places; if you respect the space of others that may be using the place...

HOWEVER - As stated a few times - It is the recovery process that often breaches the laws and regs.

Quote from by-laws etc...

Whilst in a park a person must not:

<snip>

(h) interfere with a plant;

or

(i) interfere with any turf, sand, clay, soil or other material;

or

(j)interfere with a facility or equipment;

So even digging around in the soft fall could get you into strife.... and when you look at the definations, even when in the water your not 100% in the clear...

plant: means any tree, bush, shrub, grass, fungi, algae or other thing terrestrial or aquatic including all natural parts of it or things naturally produced of, by or from it.

So by disturbing rotten vegetation in the water, with a scoop = your in breach.... It can be seen to destroy the natural habitat - thus also a breach of the Environmental requirements that the Council are expected to maintain.....

Thus assumptions and and opinions are like Ass%$@#@oles every one makes them and has one... But it is the big Ass%$@#@oles that sit behind a big table with a wooden mallet in their hand; that will have the final say. Trust me, telling the Judge that you read it on Google is not a defense.

Thus people need to start to look and understand the regs and laws. Not form their own assumptions...

Due to the behavior of a few; we will all have to pay...

 

[GaryO]

Ok , I understand your point , but I certainly wouldn't agree with your statement that most are breaking the rules.

"If you read it you will see how most break the rules."

 

[AngerManagement]

Ok , I understand your point , but I certainly wouldn't agree with your statement that most are breaking the rules.

So if the by law is such... Then only if you pick up a sunbaker - are you NOT breaking any of the by-laws... As how you might obtain an item below the soil surface without breaching it would be handy to know...

I would have to say that the only time I do not breach the requirements is when on private property and with permission. OR I see a sunbaker...

Whilst in a park a person must not:
<snip>
(h) interfere with a plant;

or

(i) interfere with any turf, sand, clay, soil or other material;

or

(j)interfere with a facility or equipment;

plant: means any tree, bush, shrub, grass, fungi, algae or other thing terrestrial or aquatic including all natural parts of it or things naturally produced of, by or from it.

 

[GaryO]

Thought we were talking about beaches ? Not sure how the dramatic headline about banning metal detecting on beaches is now including obscure laws about parks .

 

[AngerManagement]

Thought we were talking about beaches ?

Read the By lays and the definitions and you will find that it is in effect the same... You have slipped into an assumption, logical for some BUT still an assumption...

Beaches can be nothing more than part of a PARK... Public Area....

Beaches can be part of a Fore-Shaw

In general that are treated the same...

But take a few hours and chat to your local council and read not only the by laws but all so the Environmental and Heritage act,

AND THEN LOOK AT THE other regs that help to define who and what is covered... Just a bit of light reading - to assist with what a Public place is...


See below for a short list... And some of the regs are quite detailed...

public place means
(a) a road; or
(b) trust land; or
(c) a park or reserve as defined in Local Law No. 9 (Parks and Reserves) 2008; or
(d) a bathing reserve as defined in Local Law No. 10 (Bathing Reserves) 2011; or
(e) premises of which the local government is the owner or occupier; or
(f) premises which are managed or controlled by the local government; or
(g) premises specified in a subordinate local law.

recreation means a pastime, amusement or occupation that refreshes or enlivens the mind, the spirits or the person.

recreational activity means an activity that involves the assembly of a person or persons for recreation or social purposes or for the purposes of conducting a meeting.

recreational fisher has the meaning given in the Fisheries Regulation 2008.

recreational fishing has the meaning given in the Fisheries Regulation 2008.

regulated activity means an activity the undertaking of which requires a permit under this local law.

reserve means land which is placed under the control of the local government pursuant to legislation, and includes land specified as a reserve in a subordinate local law but does not include a bathing reserve as defined in Local Law No. 10 (Bathing Reserves) 2004.

 

[AngerManagement]

And Banning was never mentioned in the posts on the main forum where this was first published...

They were told to leave and cease detecting ASAP on the beaches.

Police were then called and they were willing and ready to enforce the directions, as given to the two people detecting...

Thus any attempt to keep detecting would have resulted in a Failure to comply = Arrest

Also

including obscure laws about parks

=

Many people detect parks and play grounds every day... Thus you can detect; but recovery will catch you out.

 

[Heatho]

In the Sydney area generally the dune areas are fenced off which obviously means you should not enter that area for any reason without permission but on no beach does it state that you can not dig a hole and not metal detect, until such signs are erected specifying that metal detecting and or the digging of holes on beaches is illegal I will continue to enjoy my passtime. I have never left an open hole and never will, you would never even know I had detected a park or beach as there is no evidence of the fact.

If signs are erected specifying no interfering of sand on a beach where does that leave the kids who do as such? Building a sand castle would basically be illegal, that would make nearly anyone who visits a beach a criminal. Stupid laws were meant to be broken. Council workers only usually work 9-5 and most detectorists would just detect on either side of these times if it actually becomes illegal. Most Police would not even respond to such a complaint and deem it frivolous.

I have never had a lifeguard ask me to move on for enjoying my hobby, I have never had a council ranger move me along. Most give me a "good onya mate" for removing dangerous junk.

Detecting without target recovery is almost as rediculous as wiping your bum before having a crap, it makes little sense.

Anyway when it comes time for council amalgamations I will vote wholeheartedly to get rid of 2/3 of the morons who make these stupid rules that no body can understand and few can enforce.

 

[AngerManagement]

Heatho

All I can say is I agree....

Plenty of others do leave a mess and I have seen them detecting dunes behind fences !!!! Toss the book at them...

I am not for extreme measures, but one always need to be aware of the regs and laws... I know when I am in breach and just how I might need to respond when / if confronted by a ranger etc.

Even though I think many of the laws were there for good reason, they are extremely restrictive to many of us partaking in a hobby/recreation. And thus contravenes their own definitions..

recreation means a pastime, amusement or occupation that refreshes or enlivens the mind, the spirits or the person.

I would hope that all the members here understand that I am just stating the cold facts... Having spent many many thousands in court and having lost out on Justest and the other won due to a point of law.

Assumptions and Morals and Ethics and Common Sense will not see you acquitted..

 

[Ryan]

As the say - The Law Is an Ass !!

CGS

 

[Heatho]

Heatho

All I can say is I agree....

Plenty of others do leave a mess and I have seen them detecting dunes behind fences !!!! Toss the book at them...

I am not for extreme measures, but one always need to be aware of the regs and laws... I know when I am in breach and just how I might need to respond when / if confronted by a ranger etc.

Even though I think many of the laws were there for good reason, they are extremely restrictive to many of us partaking in a hobby/recreation. And thus contravenes their own definitions..

recreation means a pastime, amusement or occupation that refreshes or enlivens the mind, the spirits or the person.

I would hope that all the members here understand that I am just stating the cold facts... Having spent many many thousands in court and having lost out on Justest and the other won due to a point of law.

Assumptions and Morals and Ethics and Common Sense will not see you acquitted..

I'm with you mate and understanding legalese is difficult at the best of times, getting caught out and paying the price on a point of law that is rediculous happens everyday in the Aussie legal system......... The last sentence in your post is extremely relevant.

Seriously though I can just imagine the look on a coppers face if he got called to a beach to arrest a detectorist for digging and then backfilling a hole on a beach, even the cop would be grumpy for having to do such a thing you'd think. They have much better things to do than waste time on such a frivolous matter unless there was violence or disorder occuring..

Anyway at least things are not so bad down here yet.

 

[Dave law]

I know it all sounds like a crock but the law is the law and we all should do our best to abide by it. Change the law i say.

 

[Tassie Daz]

When it all come down to it, its about who you offend. The 2 guys in the ute - probably would love to have been out there doing it too. The greenie who thinks if you dig a hole on the beach you might disturb a habitat of some long lost worm or grub [only joking] or else someone who thinks its wrong to dig holes on the beach to retrieve lost property that they might have been able to find. In the end then you have someone who decides that they must apply a lost and unused council bylaw to stop such vandalism [their opinion] instead of letting someone else clean up the crap that is in the soil left by a hundred years of neglectful people. [I was in my town park the other night and when someone asked how I was going I said not great - lots of bottle caps, a bong, and some sharps, yep, sharps. They suggested I keep at it then. ]

 

[Goldtarget]

Assumptions and Morals and Ethics and Common Sense will not see you acquitted..

Fortunately applying this during the activity might actually save a bit of grief prior to things escalating to legalities. Using these words by AM as a basis not a reply.

Case in point this summer(true story) Two seperate incidents. First sat afternoon, boat ramp group of bystanders drinking enjoying the day having a laugh. Boat arrives to be launched bystanders give a helping hand as strangers ,everyone's day gets better, merriment and enjoyment follows.

Sunday. Same boat ramp different group, different boat. Boat being launched and then bystander starts big noting (despite groups obvious disgust with member of group) words exchanged turn to swearing, then yelling then fist fight breaks out. Cops called day for both groups ruined.

Same factors, completely different result. Every situation has the potential to turn sour. We are a passionate bunch, keeping things in check goes a long way to helping ourselves and the next bloke. Try politeness, compliance and follow direction with a smile. The good guys chalking up a few small wins might help turn the tide.

Turning things into right and wrong and a battlefield does not serve the greater good. Nor does sitting idle if rights get eroded. Try an informed approach to those that can change the rules. Again case in point no point tearing a strip off the bloke with a hidden camera car, stupid laws and rules exist everywhere! Focusing the efforts to the direction that matters.

 

[silver]

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[Jaros]

Silver ----------you've had toooooo much sun, mate!!!! :lol: