Battery charging advice!

[ironrock]

G`day Guys, i finally bought a 4wd, well to some not a true 4wd (Nissan X trail 2007) with 92000k`s on the clock, runs like a dream, and more importantly will get me out into the bush, hopefully digging up the 20 pound monster that has my name on it.
Anyways, to the subject, i have an inverter, but i want to charge my SD2200D gell cell batteries using the lighter socket in my car, these batteries take around 6 hours to charge on the mains, i`m not sure if they will take longer charged in the car. What advice can you give me in relation to how often should i start my car, and how long should i run it for, to avoid the car battery from going flat, i`ve never done this before, so would appreciate some help!!

 

[Westozadventures]

Have you got a solar panel? My car battery went flat several times while in the middle of nowhere earlier this year from all the things I was charging. Put the solar panel on the car 15-20 minutes and she was good to start. I also take a deep cycle battery which the solar panel keeps charged to keep my big fridge running.

 

[dam it]

Try one of these
Comes with loads of connections and will jump start a Diesel 4x4
Ebay $86

 

[Occasional_panner]

Check the battery voltage with a multimeter. If it gets close to 12v run it a while.
If you plan to do a lot of trips look into an auxiliary battery.
Is the inverter pure sine wave, if not it may stuff your charger.
Note inverters have an idle current. IE they will draw anywhere from 1 to 5 amps just being turned on.
Alternatively you may find a 12v charger for it.

 

[old hand]

I am pretty sure 12v to 6v charger for the 2200 has a safety cut out ,just try it at home on your car if it flattens the battery then you can recharge the battery regards john :Y:

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

Best setup for a 4WD is a Battery Isolator with a 2nd Battery. The second battery would be a deep cycle which will allow jump start feature if needed.

This system is best as it will never drain from your main battery, only the second battery. Obviously it would have a inline Manual Circuit Breaker as well to allow isolation if needed.

Depending on size of second battery, how much you drive, and how much you drain, will help you decide if you want to add a Solar Panel for trickle charging the 2nd battery during periods of no uses.

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

And as said above, check with your charger specs of your detector to see if it can run 12volts. If not, it would pay to get a Pure Sine Inverter if you want to protect your charger in the long run.

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

Car batteries do not like to be drained bellow 12volts. It can start killing cell capacity. And in the end you lose amp capacity.
It would be advisable to not charge anything whilst the engine is off.

Deep Cycle is what you need

 

[7.62marksman]

$129.00 from EBay
this is the one i run to charge all my stuff and never had a problem with any of my gear Phone/Laptop/Radios/Sniffer etc etc and it runs off the secondary battery which is charge from a Solar panel and the vehicle when driving

 

[condor22]

G`day Guys, i finally bought a 4wd, well to some not a true 4wd (Nissan X trail 2007) with 92000k`s on the clock, runs like a dream, and more importantly will get me out into the bush, hopefully digging up the 20 pound monster that has my name on it.
Anyways, to the subject, i have an inverter, but i want to charge my SD2200D gell cell batteries using the lighter socket in my car, these batteries take around 6 hours to charge on the mains, i`m not sure if they will take longer charged in the car. What advice can you give me in relation to how often should i start my car, and how long should i run it for, to avoid the car battery from going flat, i`ve never done this before, so would appreciate some help!!

"How long is a piece of string" To answer you with a reasonable suggestion/s, more info is required. i.e.

1. The 2200 charger can be a 500mA or a 1,000mA 240VAC charger or a 12VDC charger you plug into a cig socket, so what do you have?
2. Using the 12VDC charger or 1,000mA 240VAC charger takes 10 hours for a fully flat battery to be charged. However, how long, is relevant to how much you use per day and how often you charge. So what is your normal routine?
3. How big is your Inverter?

The 12VDC charge option will most likely draw less than the 240VAC option from an inverter as there is roughly a 10% efficiency loss to invert 12VDC to 240VAC.
Also, the efficiency loss is less on a small inverter compared to using a small amount of a larger inverter.

Methodology is also a factor as much as the equipment. i.e. I have a GPX5000 with the 8VDC battery and a SDC2300 with 4 x C cell Ni-Mh rechargebles, both with 240VAC and 12VDC charging options. I do have an Auxiliary battery, but that only means I don't affect the start battery and would chose 12VDC as the preferred option.

So, to charge each day with the least impact on the battery, here's what I would do; I more often than not need to drive from camp to where I detect, so put the batteries on charge morning on the way out, lunchtime (if you have a break and again on the drive home. That way the alternator will drive the charge without depleting the start battery. This minimises the time needed to charge when the engine is off.

Footnote : I usually have my caravan with me, with both solar and 2kVA generator, so I rarely use the car. The GPX Lithium charges in much less time than 2200 batteries and I have 2 sets for the 2300 so can leave 1 set on the van battery and solar whilst out and swap them out, as they take longer to charge. An example of not only what you have, but how you use it.

 

[condor22]

I am pretty sure 12v to 6v charger for the 2200 has a safety cut out ,just try it at home on your car if it flattens the battery then you can recharge the battery regards john :Y:

According to the 2200 manual, it does, but it's set to 11V and I would not draw the start battery that low

 

[ironrock]

Thanks for all your replies, i`ll try and explain it better in the next few days, as right now i have a massive headache, and cant concentrate even if i tried.....

 

[iamagoldenoldie2]

The Christie Generator, an alternator driven by a small honda petrol engine , small and compact , 12 volt output with 30 amps plus charging , yes had many an arguement on how this would destroy a battery, but, so far so good, the designer explained the finer points on battery charging and with the electronics tweaked and sealed, it gives you voltage reading and the amp output at the flick of a switch, but what it does do, charge a flat lead acid battery in an hour using a litre of unleaded fuel, can run you night lights , hook it up to a a battery to run a charger or a drill, or the inverter, the Christie generator is a dedicated camping and 4wd must have, thats why I go nowhere without mine , works rain hail or sunshine and is a better tool than a genny

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

Still a generator

 

[Occasional_panner]

The Christie Generator, an alternator driven by a small honda petrol engine , small and compact , 12 volt output with 30 amps plus charging , yes had many an arguement on how this would destroy a battery, but, so far so good, the designer explained the finer points on battery charging and with the electronics tweaked and sealed, it gives you voltage reading and the amp output at the flick of a switch, but what it does do, charge a flat lead acid battery in an hour using a litre of unleaded fuel, can run you night lights , hook it up to a a battery to run a charger or a drill, or the inverter, the Christie generator is a dedicated camping and 4wd must have, thats why I go nowhere without mine , works rain hail or sunshine and is a better tool than a genny

http://www.christieengineering.com.au/products.html
Not bloody cheap, if you are going to throw $1000+ you may as well get a pure sine 240 gen and have the versatility, realistically you'll probably only run a 30 amp charger off most but that's more than enough for 99% of campers applications.
Years ago I setup a off grid solar/wind turbine setup on a farm, I made a backup DC charger with a petrol engine and a rewired fisher and paykel washing machine motor. You can set them up for star or delta and change the configuration to suit 24 and 48v systems fairly easily, cost about $150 all up.
You can much more easily just hook up a car's alternator to a petrol motor if you want a cheap dc charger.
Plenty of ways to swing a cat, that's all overkill for Ironrock's needs.

Westoz prob has the best idea, just a small solar panel should cover the needs for the moment, but an aux battery is really a must out bush.

 

[old hand]

condor22 can you put up some pictures of your2200 battery and charger thanks john

 

[Occasional_panner]

Just had a better look at the christie one http://www.christieengineering.com.au/Brochures/GXH5055ND.pdf
It's hooked upto a bosch car alternator, nice bit of gear, but if you are handy you can make one yourself.

 

[condor22]

condor22 can you put up some pictures of your2200 battery and charger thanks john

I don't have a 2200

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I have a GPX5000 and a SDC2300.

The SD2200 charging info I quoted is easily obtained from the Minelab site.

If you are referring to the 2300, I'll happily post pics of that.

I fortunately have numerous charging options, however, although I can use any of them, as a matter of process there are other reasons that govern which I use, so here they are and why;

I free camp with a solar equipped caravan, plus I also use a Honda 2kVA. The van has it's own ensuite, but as the LPG cylinders are inside the front boot they are only 2 x 4.5kg. The fridge is a 3 way and if I used LPG to do all my cooking and heat hot water, I'd be forever filling up gas bottles. To minimise LPG use, I try to cook as much as possible in the Microwave and heat the hot water from 240VAC (it's duel gas/elec). So, solar is on when I'm away detecting and nothing is on van battery power other than the SDC battery charge. When I get back from detecting, I turn on the genny to a. heat water and b. at some point cook tea. During this time I put the GPX charger on, my phones, laptop and whatever else I need to charge as well as switching solar off and the 240VAC van battery charger on. The genny is on for 2-3 hours.

Everything usually is fully charged in this time, except as mentioned before, the SDC C cells may not, depending on how long I used them during the day.

I have camped, for 3 nights locally and without the generator and before I bought the SDC2300. I used the van battery to charge the GPX5000 battery, using the 12VDC adaptor, rather than fire up the inverter. The solar panels coped with everything I needed.

So for any pics wanted, let me know what of

 

[ironrock]

Okay i`m back, yeah i think you guys are overkilling it, I want to go the cheapest way possible, and it`s looking like solar might be the go, can anyone post a link to ebay of a good solar setup, ( also explain to me how long would it take to charge this battery with this setup) i have 3 batteries, i assumed they only last 6-8 hours but contacted minersden, they told me around 12 hours use.
I have a 1000w sine wave inv/gen but that could work out to 6-8 bucks worth of fuel a night, too expensive, i dont understand why someone cant make a lithium battery to suit all minelab machines, you know; like a universal 1 size fits all, the charging times on them are far quicker from what i`ve read, i`m looking to get a 4500 to compliment my SD,but that's a few months down the track.
I`m talking about 1 week in the bush in vic possibly 2 weeks at a time, something i want to make fairly regular, at least 4 to 6 trips a year, i plan on moving there eventually, not sure when that will happen tho?
There is one other thing i could do, i do have 2 mains chargers, so purchase 1 more battery, that makes 4 , use 1 each day make sure not too discharge fully, then when 4 days up, find a powered site in local caravan park for 1 night and charge up all 4 batteries and away i go, what do you reckon about that?

 

[condor22]

Simply, the battery is a 10AH, the manual states the 1,000mA charger takes 10 hrs to charge a flat battery (FYI 1,000mA = 1 amp). So simple math, it charges 1 amp per hour for each AH of the 10AH battery. The book also states a full battery should last 12 hours, but I assume your batteries are not new, so work on 10 hours use or less.

Again simple math, if a 10AH battery lasts 10 hours then it's using approx. 1 AH for every hour of use. So, for every hour you use the detector, you will need to charge for at least one hour for that use to replace it.

Keep in mind that if you use a solar panel, you should not connect the SD charger directly to it's output. A battery still needs to be in the mix. i.e Connect the panel to the battery (via a controller) then connect your SD battery charger to the battery. An 80AH AGM as a 2nd battery is probably all you need if that is its only use.

The time taken to charge your SD batteries, will still be the same regardless of where you get the source from, that's governed by your SD charger/s. What is important, is how big your solar array is, as to replacing what you use from that source i.e. start battery or auxiliary.

Re Lithium, the SD2200 was released in 1998, before Lithium was available for detector use. Some detectors are not conducive to Lithium use.
Re Ebay panels, too many out there, but remember You get what you pay for.

Unfortunately, the "Cheapest way possible" will still cost you.