Aux battery charging from 12V cig socket

[Occasional_panner]

Hey Condor22 can I run something by you mate?
I have a 2010 Ranger with a temp sensing alternator, the max I have seen is 13.8V from it, so the agm I have now is rooted from not being fed with enough charge.
My current setup is a fuse at the pos terminal and a seriously heavy lead 1cm thick (I just happened to have it) To the Dual sensingVSR on the firewall and another lead 1cm thick (in conduit) back to the tray and another fuse to the 120ah agm.

This clearly doesn't work as the temp sensing alt drops when hot and only charges at 13.2.......... so rooted 2nd batt.

I was looking at getting the redarc controller 1225 lv, or d that would handle a solar input, however I wondered since my reliance on the tray battery was so infrequent, would it be smarter to just add a solar MPPT controller to a solar panel to get the onboard tray battery to charge properly instead of spending the extra amount on a dcdc?
I have a 160w solar panel and I could mount that on my roof no worries. So adding a Mppt would allow the battery to be looked after ok as it really only gets used for a fridge/led's on weekends 5-10 times a year.

So considering that, would this product work in the drawing? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron-...195234?hash=item4d384f2ee2:g:H9AAAOSwOdpX0jo7
Or would that input need to be isolated with a diode?

I could probably just rely on the solar to feed the tray battery, however, I figured the alternator would be able to provide the bulk power and the solar with a mppt could do the topping up to "look after" the battery.

 

[condor22]

Panner,

My first point to you is that when connecting a second battery, especially an AGM not under the hood, is not to connect direct to the alternator. The start battery should be the source as it provides a more constant power source and absorbs any spikes. The key is to either make the source IGN switchable (like mine) with a solenoid or use the voltage cut off capability of the Redarc to protect the start battery. As my Redarc is in the back next to the battery, I didn't want another lead going fwd to IGN and even though it will sense the voltage anyway, I needed switchable power to an Anderson for the caravan and am able to use the same solenoid.

Another thing to consider is what you want from the battery i.e. in my instance, I have my Engel "permanently" mounted in the rear of the 4by and the AGM and charger. However, I don't always have the Engel on, I tend to use it during summer to carry the grocery shopping fridge/frozos home then turn it off, when carrying drinks to BBQs etc. The only time I leave it on in earnest is during prospecting trips or holidays away. As I drive most days, I don't worry about the weather or shade as the Redarc charges the AGM. If I bush camp within walking distance of prospecting, I deploy the portable panel on the roof of the car. As noted above I also have a monitor so I can check the SOC if in doubt.

You may not have read in another post, but I learned the hard way re charging volts and depth of draw and it cost me 2 x 100AH replacements in my first caravan, in less than 2 years. I changed out my 4by AGM last year at nearly 10 years old, so I know the benefit of doing it right. Properly installed and used my 2 Redarcs will probably outlast me .

Either way I would not recommend using the VSR before the input to a Redarc or the Victron, without getting advice from the respective manufacturers. Notwithstanding, they don't need it.

Re a panel on the roof, you will need to make sure that you park in the open, any shade on a small portion of most panels will drop the output to the "bugger all" point. The Unisolar Amorphous panels are the exception as their output decreases relative to the % in the shade. But they are a bigger physical panel for the same output as Mono or Poly panels. Weather conditions will also play a large part of how much charge you'll get. I'm not a big fan of solar only charging as it limits options.

My van and indeed my 4by are all capable of being charged when driving from DC to DC, from solar when parked/camped and if necessary from 240VAC off my genset.

Let me know if this helps.....

 

[Occasional_panner]

Thanks, Condor, currently the alternator isn't charging the second tray battery properly, but it's probably getting it to 80%.
Would that 160w panel be able to make up the last 20% and look after the battery given my infrequent use of the second battery?

If not then I'll have to get a dcdc.

Edit, my reasoning for this, is I already have the panel, so that would save me buying a dcdc, but I'll do what's needed.

2nd edit, three different people have told me I need different models of the redarc 1225lv 1225ign and 1225d.
That's another reason I was put off buying one, as I didn't want to spend $500+ on something that's not quite right.

 

[Occasional_panner]

OK after about 4 hours of reading I answered my own questions.
A. The alternator will not charge a battery properly even if other inputs are involved, so a dc dc charger is needed.

B.The different redarc models have different requirements, the latest D version looks to be the best option for me.(but the most pricey).

 

[blisters]

Occasional_panner the 1225D doesn't require the expense and hassle of an external relay to switch between panel/alternator and will charge using both at the same time. It will also charge lithium.

The victron with panels will be fine to top off the battery without the engine running, but as with the standard 1225 use a relay off the ignition to isolate the panels when driving and the charging system when not. The alternator will charge it to a level e.g. 80% and the solar is fine to continue.

The redarc is more expensive and is the simplest option and over the victron, gives you the added capability of charging to 100% while driving and isolates your batteries.

Jon

 

[condor22]

The simple difference between them is the 1225 is a manual (solenoid) "either or" charger/solar controller whereas the 1225D will do both at the same time giving preference to solar first.

The factor that determines which one to use is wether your solar is available all the time as in a roof mount or only deployed when camped up.

The best price I found for the 1225D is http://www.autoelec.com.au/?rf=kw&kw=bcdc1225d I bought mine here considerable cheaper than direct from Redarc and only live 15kms from their factory.

 

[condor22]

Here's another option the 3rd link down gives the operation manual https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=projecta+idc25

@ $275 it's much cheaper than the Redarc and is similar in operation to the BCDC1225

HOWEVER - I have no knowledge of their reliability, so Google reviews if they are out there.

 

[Occasional_panner]

Occasional_panner the 1225D doesn't require the expense and hassle of an external relay to switch between panel/alternator and will charge using both at the same time. It will also charge lithium.

The victron with panels will be fine to top off the battery without the engine running, but as with the standard 1225 use a relay off the ignition to isolate the panels when driving and the charging system when not. The alternator will charge it to a level e.g. 80% and the solar is fine to continue.

The redarc is more expensive and is the simplest option and over the victron, gives you the added capability of charging to 100% while driving and isolates your batteries.

Jon

Yeah, thanks mate, that was the conclusion I came to, it just looks like a more user friendly device and has the ability to be used with smart or old style alternators.

This joint http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REDARC-B...351373?hash=item3f70f9b00d:g:SekAAOSw-0xYSO~P has them for $499 and I can pick it up from the wharehouse and not worry about the postie smashing it.

And for an extra $30 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REDARC-B...343843?hash=item3f70f992a3:g:NyMAAOSwo4pYSO6j

 

[Occasional_panner]

Here's another option the 3rd link down gives the operation manual https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=projecta+idc25

@ $275 it's much cheaper than the Redarc and is similar in operation to the BCDC1225

HOWEVER - I have no knowledge of their reliability, so Google reviews if they are out there.

Thanks Condor, I'd rather stick with Aussie made, it's so bloody rare these days to find what you want that's made here.
I do believe in paying more for better quality, and redarc do have a good name.

 

[condor22]

Very True

 

[Occasional_panner]

Well I picked up the 1225d today with gauges and cable package..... ouch that's a lot for a bloody charger!
Well at least I helped out the Aus economy.

 

[Jaros]

This may be of interest to some of you setting up your camping gear.
http://www.banggood.com/12V-Counter...tmeter-For-Motorcycle-Car-Boat-p-1034808.html

Jaros

 

[user 7268]

Just an update as fought long and hard to get my system working correctly, replaced panels deep cycle, and rewired the complete set up......................... turns out after replacing just about everything had a crook unit out the box .
New unit in place and all is as it should be
The guys from Brown & Watson (Narva) were more than helpful and was a hassle free supply of replacement unit.
IDC25 Unit as said now working a treat and certainly gains much more from the solar panel than the normal cheapo regulator that usually comes with panels.

 

[condor22]

Said it before "Yous gets wots yous pays fors"

 

[user 7268]

Said it before "Yous gets wots yous pays fors"

Yes but funnily enough when speaking with Auto Elec Au who sell both these and the redarc they had more problems (claims) with the Redarc than the Projecta units ? I have used Redarc Isolators for years with no problems. I think in this day and age the quality or maybe even more so the quality control just isn't what it used to be sadly. So I'd say it's more a case of you can either build to a standard or build to a price and the latter appears to be the current trend :|

 

[Occasional_panner]

I doubt many people ever even hook up the solar part of the controller. I spoke to a few 4wd'ers and none of them had solar panels, they all just used it as a dcdc.
Most didn't know they could take solar.

 

[user 7268]

I doubt many people ever even hook up the solar part of the controller. I spoke to a few 4wd'ers and none of them had solar panels, they all just used it as a dcdc.
Most didn't know they could take solar.

Probably the case for most 4x4 drivers .................. prospectings a bit different as when up North and using the quad to get around the car itself might sit for over a week without being driven so with no input at all the fridge would certainly drain the battery easily in that time. Also depends what size fridge your running of it .................. travelling I have an 80 and 50 litre and once set up camp run the 50 off camper and leave the 80 litre in vehicle. Have found two to three days with no input all copes well but once you push past that time I'm starting to get low in power ................ again that's with no input and also I can be out for up to a month at a time running on battery only which places a complete different requirement on what you need of your system compared to an overnighter or a few days

 

[user 7268]

Should have added so I guess it comes down to needing to build a system depending on what you require it to do ? Long term versus short term two complete different things with vastly different systems required as a result. If I was just doing one nighters I'd probably just charge a battery and strap it in the back and take it out when I got home and recharge it .................. simple and even better real cheap to do :lol:

 

[condor22]

Agreed, I use both Projecta and Redarc gear and have never had an issue with either. My comment was more toward the "Evilbay" el cheapo stuff.

 

[blisters]

Well I picked up the 1225d today with gauges and cable package..... ouch that's a lot for a bloody charger!
Well at least I helped out the Aus economy.

It is pricey but the distinct advantage you have over the current offerings is it also charges lithium so as lithium battery prices become affordable you won't have to go to the expense of replacing the charger.
Jon