Australian Flag question??

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loamer

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Historical inaccuracy about our flag: We are told since childhood that the Union Flag/Union Jack, is on our flag because of our UK inherited ideals/beliefs and that historically, we were a series of colonies under this flag, Captain Cook raised it, the First Fleet raised it etc etc, its our history etc etc. Well - Captain Cook did not hoist the flag in 1770 we see today - this was not the Union Flag. See image.

1410840608_a1.png


Now, taking our history just a bit more forward, the current Union Flag/Union Jack, was not created until 1801with the union of Ireland with the remainder of Great Britain. See http://projectbritain.com/geography/unionjack4.html

But wait!! Wasn't the First Fleet in 1788, some 13 years prior to the new Union Flag/Union Jack, which sort of negates the 'its on the Australian Flag because that's the history of it" Well - no it is not. The current flag is predated by Captains Cooks use of the older flag and the hoisting of this same earlier flag for the First Fleet - see image:

1410840897_a1.png


Now, bearing in mind the ability of some to ignore the facts behind the history of the first use of a British Flag in Australia, and thus historically that's what should be there, not the 1801 flag, what will happen if the Scots vote YES to leave the UK?? Will we have the determination to change our flag, because after all, the original 1770/1788 Flag had the St Georges Cross and St Andrews Cross (Scotland). Will the UK change its flag to remove the St Andrews Cross?? Will we as an independent nation ever actually grow up??
 
Australia probably should become independant, it's probably the right time, will happen sooner or later. If Scotland leaves though yes the flag probably should be changed technically. :)
 
It's time for change, dump the union jack, love my country and have served it for the past 24yrs, but every time I look at it reminds me that the UK still has a precents here.
just my 2 cents
 
I don't see a reason to change our flag. If Scotland becomes independent then it will, by the choice of her people, hold the same position as Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the West Indies in the Commonwealth of Nations - an independent nation with Queen Elizabeth II as reigning monarch. Changing the flag won't change who we are. That said, the chance of a change happening is remote - even many diehard republicans don't want the flag changed. To be honest I doubt that the remainder of Great Britain will want to change the Union Jack either.
 
I believe Australia should have its own flag and identity.
1410953773_images.jpg

I would be happy to live under the flag above or any other majority selected uniquely Australian emblem.
I feel nothing for Britain its royal family or its cricket team. They can keep their union Jack. I am an Australian.
I do however respect all those that have lived fought and died under the current flag and its meaning and history.
IMHO 8)
 
The flag represents the country , its history, it's people, what they stand for and what they have done, none of which you will learn by looking at the flag so the only importance of the image of the flag is that it is recognisable as representing the country by changing the image it will not be recognisable for many years to the majority of the worlds population and as such defeats the purpose of the flag
 
outboard said:
The flag represents the country , its history, it's people, what they stand for and what they have done, none of which you will learn by looking at the flag so the only importance of the image of the flag is that it is recognisable as representing the country by changing the image it will not be recognisable for many years to the majority of the worlds population and as such defeats the purpose of the flag
Click to expand...

Makes sense what you say mate but isn't it time we stood on our own feet?
The flag is for its people, stuff the rest of the world. 8)
 
goldtruck59 said:
Makes sense what you say mate but isn't it time we stood on our own feet?
The flag is for its people, stuff the rest of the world. 8)
Click to expand...

Changing my pants isn't going to make my legs stronger

We as Aussies have been standing on our own feet teaching the world better ways of doing things for as longer then we have been a nation, a better way to spend the tax payers dollar would be to educate our kids about who we really are, where we came from, what we have done for the world and give them a sense of pride in being an Aussie born under that flag, that will make their legs stronger
:cool:
 
Interesting observations and opinions. Put a flash flag pole up in the backyard and raised and lowered the flag for a few weeks. Then the council came and measured the distance from the road to see if I was "compliant" with local by laws. That to me puts things in greater perspective than the union Jack. Put up a second flag pole and flew the eureka flag after given the tick of "approval" on the first one. I'm just as proud flying the flag because it's Australian, bugger the origins, it's the symbol of the land I live in, not where we came from. Whatever the design I'll raise it with a heart felt sense of pride, if Australian people wanna change it I'll buy the new one and put it up the flag pole, raise it in the morning, lower it at night and fold it up. I'll also be voting in the next Council elections. :D
 
Goldtarget said:
Interesting observations and opinions. Put a flash flag pole up in the backyard and raised and lowered the flag for a few weeks. Then the council came and measured the distance from the road to see if I was "compliant" with local by laws. That to me puts things in greater perspective than the union Jack. Put up a second flag pole and flew the eureka flag after given the tick of "approval" on the first one. I'm just as proud flying the flag because it's Australian, bugger the origins, it's the symbol of the land I live in, not where we came from. Whatever the design I'll raise it with a heart felt sense of pride, if Australian people wanna change it I'll buy the new one and put it up the flag pole, raise it in the morning, lower it at night and fold it up. I'll also be voting in the next Council elections. :D
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you have the respect to raise it in the morning and lower it at night, so many think they are proud Aussies just flying it and then never take it down
 
Change the flag - don't change the flag - not the main point of my post. My point was, the propaganda we have had since kids was that Captain Cook et al (First Fleet etc) raised the Union Jack in 1770 and 1788 - they most certainly DID NOT - the Union Jack as we know it did not come into existence until 1801. As for representing who we are, I think we have grown up a bit since then but the change of flag and the Republican debate are good signs of a healthy democracy where we can each have an opinion. As for most Republicans not wanting to change the flag - load of bollox but there you go. As for representing our past, one of the key points of the Eureka Flag was that the Union Jack did not represent the multi-national presence on the Goldfields, including the English miners who were there - a fact often ignored.

As for changing flags - lets look at the history of flag changes in microcosm - UK has changed theirs as detailed above - US has changed theirs, several times in fact - Canada did a complete change, Sth Africa change theirs (twice now), Germany, Russia - the list goes on.

For me - it will never be changed in my lifetime, nor will we get our Republic (and for the Monarchists, the majority of countries in the Commonwealth are Republics, in fact India, the biggest, has been for many years).

At least, as I pointed out, we can have a healthy debate about this. I love our current flag, love the Eureka Flag, love the Victorian State Flag - dislike the rest (get the point of that!!!)
 
outboard said:
Goldtarget said:
Interesting observations and opinions. Put a flash flag pole up in the backyard and raised and lowered the flag for a few weeks. Then the council came and measured the distance from the road to see if I was "compliant" with local by laws. That to me puts things in greater perspective than the union Jack. Put up a second flag pole and flew the eureka flag after given the tick of "approval" on the first one. I'm just as proud flying the flag because it's Australian, bugger the origins, it's the symbol of the land I live in, not where we came from. Whatever the design I'll raise it with a heart felt sense of pride, if Australian people wanna change it I'll buy the new one and put it up the flag pole, raise it in the morning, lower it at night and fold it up. I'll also be voting in the next Council elections. :D
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you have the respect to raise it in the morning and lower it at night, so many think they are proud Aussies just flying it and then never take it down
Click to expand...

The mrs and i are proud Aussies, the flag went up and stays up, dosnt make us any less of an Aussie, to those that choose to raise and lower each day, good onya, we choose not to. :)
 
We have a flag at work that stays up 24/7. My information is that this is ok as long as its floodlit at night, which we do.
Perhaps someone can confirm this. My dad and few mates who were in the army told me this.
 
Australian flags Part 2: The protocols for the appropriate use and the flying of the flag said:
The flag should be raised no earlier than
first light and should be lowered no later
than dusk.
The flag may only be flown at night when
illuminated.
Click to expand...
booklet can be found here

dwt said:
The mrs and i are proud Aussies, the flag went up and stays up, dosnt make us any less of an Aussie, to those that choose to raise and lower each day, good onya, we choose not to. :)
Click to expand...

Sorry I chose my words poorly, did not mean to infer anyone was less of an Aussie
 
loamer said:
Change the flag - don't change the flag - not the main point of my post. My point was, the propaganda we have had since kids was that Captain Cook et al (First Fleet etc) raised the Union Jack in 1770 and 1788 - they most certainly DID NOT - the Union Jack as we know it did not come into existence until 1801. As for representing who we are, I think we have grown up a bit since then but the change of flag and the Republican debate are good signs of a healthy democracy where we can each have an opinion. As for most Republicans not wanting to change the flag - load of bollox but there you go. As for representing our past, one of the key points of the Eureka Flag was that the Union Jack did not represent the multi-national presence on the Goldfields, including the English miners who were there - a fact often ignored.

As for changing flags - lets look at the history of flag changes in microcosm - UK has changed theirs as detailed above - US has changed theirs, several times in fact - Canada did a complete change, Sth Africa change theirs (twice now), Germany, Russia - the list goes on.

For me - it will never be changed in my lifetime, nor will we get our Republic (and for the Monarchists, the majority of countries in the Commonwealth are Republics, in fact India, the biggest, has been for many years).

At least, as I pointed out, we can have a healthy debate about this. I love our current flag, love the Eureka Flag, love the Victorian State Flag - dislike the rest (get the point of that!!!)
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm! Hey loamer i sincerely value your contributions on this forum but what you see as propaganda is actually fact because Cook certainly DID raise the Union flag (aka Union Jack) it's just that it has evolved into what we see today, and exactly the same is true for the Australian flag since federation, and had you noticed yet again the Eureka Flag too has evolved. I'll rest there.

Casper
 

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