australian drought

[shakergt]

because laying a pipe line and piping it miles from a huge dam/lake to where its needed won't happen anytime soon with our gov

yep they should have done it when they talked about it. A few years back when Lake Argyle overflowed at the spill way they estimated that 85000 litres of water flowed per second. That's a fair bit of water flowing per hour

Shakergt that's 306,000,000 million litres per hour which equates to 7 billion 344,000,000 million litres per day. That's some serious water do you know how long those flows lasted. Funny thing is I was at a waste water treatment plant the other day and had thoughts of it being piped inland, it's class "A" water treated with chlorine and pumped into the ocean 8) . If the infrastructure was put in place it would have multiple benefits for many communities by way of the need of water and creating job's :Y:.
A lady from Bendigo has started a fund raising venture called Parma for a Farmer :Y: pub's are taking it up hopefully it'll go national. I'm not sure of the specifics it was only introduced this week and is gaining momentum :Y:.

This shows the figures for the 2013/14 wet

http://www.bom.gov.au/water/nwa/2014/ord/contextual/wateroverview.shtml

this link goes to the stats of Lake Argyle

https://www.lakeargyle.com/history-statistics-environment/statistics/

Some serious volume when you think about it

 

[Upside]

Dust storm warning for most of S.A. today. Getting very gusty already.

Yep expecting winds to 100km there. Be prepared.

 

[Upside]

It's been an official drought out here in central NSW for a few years already. Farmers are really doing it tough already and have sewn new crops but no rain to even germinate. If it doesn't rain shortly the seed will be a waste. Poor bastids. I'm nit sure what makes the farmers wanna farm?

 

[Hunting the yellow]

yeah still dry as in my area but the mornings are cold -4 lol

 

[snafu]

because laying a pipe line and piping it miles from a huge dam/lake to where its needed won't happen anytime soon with our gov

Back in the 1920's, a bloke by the name of Cecil Levian was very instrumental in pioneering the gold mining industry in PNG (known as The Australian Mandated Territory back then) and he had a vision that if Australia took complete control instead of being a caretaker government, we could pipe a lot of water across into the northern part of Oz and use it to "green" up the inland regions. There were parts of the PNG highlands where it rained practically every day of the year.

He petitioned the government to lay sovereign claim to PNG and they dismissed the idea as ridiculous as we will never need any more water than we currently had. Cecil also suggested that the annexing of PNG would also mean that we could strengthen our defences against any potential invasion from the north. "Balderdash" cried the government, "this will never happen, there are no countries to the north who would consider attacking us."

Hmmm..............................

Jeff

 

[The Scrounger]

Apparently the federal government is going to give farmers 12k each in 2 x 6k lots starting next month.

I hope they don't bust their balls with red tape like they did in the past :8

Sad to say it is too late for some - R.I.P :|

 

[AussieChris]

maybe the answer is to put down a few wells just in case as ground water won't run dry as quickly as a dam will on the surface and purify the water that comes out so its drinkable for the stock and people

because laying a pipe line and piping it miles from a huge dam/lake to where its needed won't happen anytime soon with our gov

All sorts of legislation involved state by state for artesian water and sinking of bores and its usage. These days the price to sink a bore has gone through the roof as well. Father in law just put one in, $17,000. State subsidies might work but there are also issues with allocation/quotas. Groundwater bores to water stock are openly permitted, but irrigation is another thing. The great artesian basin is massive, 22% of the country but at the same time, it's not an unlimited resource plus the quality and quantity of aquifers can vary widely, I used to drink it, but it's not actually deemed fit for human consumption and some of it is so rough its unfit for stock. Even if you could freely irrigate with it, some of it is so heavily mineralised it would actually kill crops only after a few seasons of rotation due to build up. Some of it can even have a PH of 5 and lower, basically acid rain. And if it turns out you have good groundwater there is always the few that abuse quotas, an example being farmers caught irrigating 24/7 to grow potatoes for potato chips!

Most of the blokes in trouble would already have access to plenty of bore water to keep stock watered, but it has got so bad that cattle are eating dirt in some places. Those that don't have usable bores on their property are caught in a catch 22 of spending $15k on several tons of feed hay, or sinking a bore that might fail to hit usable water. I'm not sure what the solution is but the future looks bleak for the sole primary producers that stick to it because they have for 4+ generations. It's very hard for a lot of them to walk away even when it is dire, just in case the next year or two or maybe even five are good ones. Hopefully, all the support the government has promised can be expedited in helping all those in desperate need. Australia has always been a dry old place but in the 200 years that we built the place on wool and wheat, we have done quite a bit of damage upsetting the balance. Plenty of properties in Australia where you can see 5, 10, 20 thousand hectares devoid of anything but intensive wheat cropping as far as the eye can see. We didn't really know back in the day, that unfettered clearing of land and intensive cultivation of increasingly marginal lands would be detrimental to the ecosystem. Especially the semi arid grasslands that circle the interior, the same as in the US mass clearing and intensive cropping of wheat led to the Dust Bowl in the 1930's, even though agricultural technology in the US at the time actually lagged behind advancements in Australia. We could have learned a lot from the blackfellas about a land we decided to grow crops in (and we did it quite well for a long time) that was really not suited for deep tillage-based agriculture (perhaps not so much including the temperate south-east) and to an extent the cloven hoof.

The Bradfield Scheme was proposed just before WWII diverted attention and workers elsewhere, basically divert a series of rivers inland. It turned out unfeasible at the time due to elevation issues and the high evaporation percentage as the water made its way to the interior. They might have had the chance to do it economically back then but that chance has passed, even with massive improvements in drilling, tunneling and excavation technology the Federal and State governments would have to commit phenomenal amounts of money to the project, tens of billions that would likely turn into hundreds of billions. Wages needed would cripple the project in this day and age. The Chunnel for example 37.9 km would cost over $22 billion AUD today, and wages are higher here so probably closer to 30 billion.

I'm super tired but I hope I made some sense.

 

[Billy]

This is an interesting read, although I can't confirm its accuracy due to just copying and pasting the link....

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/a...3/Water-requirements-for-sheep-and-cattle.pdf

 

[snafu]

You raise some good points, AussieChris and I fully agree with the way you see the situation.

What we are witnessing now with widespread drought is a snapshot of the future. Australia is not learning from the mistakes of other nations, especially in the areas of land and water management. We rank up there with the worst nations on the planet for land clearing with Qld being rated the number one and too much water is being wasted on irrigation and mining. The proposed Adani mine here in central Qld will have a devastating effect on ground water, an effect that could take thousands of years to correct, but the decision makers do not want to heed the warnings. Decisions are being made wholly and solely for short term gain with total disregard for the future.

The grand plan suggested a few years ago to turn the northern part of Australia into the "food bowl of Asia" is a prime example of ridiculous planning by government. The lateritic soils up north are no good for growing food crops, it is poor carrying country for stock and apart from the limited coastal and river plains, there is very little topsoil to support tillage for any sort of crops. The CSIRO have been aware of this for the past 100 years and yet nobody is taking a scrap of notice of the research they have periodically conducted. Why? Instead of throwing good money into a project that is destined to fail, fix the problems in the areas that are struggling - the Murray/Darling would be a good starting point.

I will climb down off my box now - rant over.

Jeff

 

[aussiefarmer]

Houses cover some of the most reliable and productive farm land of the past.

Farming has always been boom and bust , setting yourself up in good times is key to riding the rough times.

A more accurate forcast is the only way to protect some areas , so farmers can destock to their key breeding stock early enough to get through.

A realistic approach to kangaroo numbers and ferals like pigs and goats , will allow farmers to actually shut paddocks up for later grazing, at the moment if we shut a paddock up for use later in the year the roos flog it harder than the padddocks with stock on them.

In 120 years here , kangaroo sightings have gone from 4 to 40 per year in the early 1900s to 40 to 400 a DAY now.

Government subsidies to drought proof farms (dams , silage pits , hay sheds) should be ongoing in the good times , as it has to be cheaper than throwing money at the 11th hour.

Farming practices need to suit the paddock , the farm , the area , the state . Blanket guidlines on tillage , clearing and management are a joke .
we treat our place by the paddock , some you can plow deep , some you direct drill .

Probably gone political didnt mean to

We had 11 mm on friday and its probably had that again last night :Y: arty: :Y: .
Supposed to be horrific winds for 3 days now

Anyway keep on keeping on :Y: farming a dust bowl still beats the ship out of being stuck in a office

 

[snafu]

Farming practices need to suit the paddock , the farm , the area , the state . Blanket guidlines on tillage , clearing and management are a joke .
we treat our place by the paddock , some you can plow deep , some you direct drill .

I spent quite a big slice of my working life in the far west of South Oz and witnessed first hand how bad farming practices were having a devastating effect on the area. Rule of thumb for broad acre cropping in that part of the country was 1 in 4, rest your paddocks for 3 years out of every 4 and give the soil a chance to recover. Some did adhere to this best practice, but most didn't and over time the soil became so fragile that when the wind got up, the topsoil got airborne and ended up in Adelaide or somewhere in Vic. Many farmers lost all their seeding which quite often ended up in a neighbour's paddock. There was a move to try and correct the problem on some farms by replanting mallee in areas that had undergone extensive land clearing back in the early days. It seemed to work, but maybe it was too little too late.

I agree, the blanket guidelines of 'one size fits all' are a joke.

Jeff

 

[Nightjar]

Ernie Bridge, a WA politician and forward thinker proposed bringing water to Perth from the Kimberly's back in 1980.
He also mentioned how communities along the length of the pipeline could benefit using the water on the already fertile land lacking water.
I wrote a letter to Premier Richard Court suggesting that the pipeline be built running from the Kimberley to Kalgoorlie thereby reducing the distance by 300+ kilometres. The pipeline built by CY O'Connor to supply Kalgoorlie with water could now be used to pump water back to Perth.
Reply: Pipeline wasn't big enough???????
Here we are nearly 40 years later crying out for water that pours into the ocean every year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley–Perth_Canal

 

[snafu]

They could also run a pipeline from the Top End all the way to South Oz. The corridor is already in place with the rail line, so half the work is done.

Jeff

 

[Wishfull]

They could also run a pipeline from the Top End all the way to South Oz. The corridor is already in place with the rail line, so half the work is done.

Jeff

Sounds great. Where do we put the water ? Not being smart but, it's gotta be stored somewhere. We would need a huge dam somewhere central S.A.
Others thing is, where exactly is this water coming from ?

 

[snafu]

They could also run a pipeline from the Top End all the way to South Oz. The corridor is already in place with the rail line, so half the work is done.

Jeff

Sounds great. Where do we put the water ? Not being smart but, it's gotta be stored somewhere. We would need a huge dam somewhere central S.A.
Others thing is, where exactly is this water coming from ?

It goes without saying that the infrastructure for both water capture in the north and storage in the south would need to be in place before such a scheme could be implemented. Capturing the runoff water in northern rivers would be no harder than any other dams that have been built in the past 100 years and storage dams could be built in various parts of the Flinders. It's not rocket science, just needs a bi-partisan approach by both sides of politics to implement it.

Jeff

 

[Manpa]

Yes, a pipeline could be a nation building project but it needs to be costed carefully, there are so many things to consider, pump stations, power, storage (dams) maintainence, land acquisition etc. Water in this country is cheap and this may be an expensive proposition which we will all be expected to pay for.
As long as we continue to farm there will be periods of drought in this country, in SA we have Goyders Line, everything north of this line is marginal farming and grazing land and it has proven to be correct over many years.
Farmers are connected more to the land than ever before with advances in technology, access to agronomists etc and do a wonderful job but there is no accounting for Mother Nature but one thing is for sure it will rain again, hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[Wishfull]

I recon the Flinders is pretty much off limits, most of it's National park.

 

[Chiron52]

FYI.
I've often wondered why our governments don't use cloud seeding to stimulate rainfall during times of drought.
Cloud seeding is a technique used by scientists to modify rainfall. Water in clouds needs to form heavy droplets to fall to the surface, but often the cloud droplets are just too small to effectively rain. The technique sees planes inject chemicals such as silver iodide and dry ice (carbon dioxide) into clouds to encourage ice crystals to form. In the right conditions, these icy crystals will grow quickly, become heavy enough to fall, and in their transit to earth the crystals are warmed, melt and fall as rain.
Since the late 1800s, scientists and various state governments have experimented with cloud seeding.
I believe in Tasmania and NSW, (Snowy Mountains area) it has been regularly done for some time, with the added bonus of promoting snow fall for winter skiing.
Whether cloud seeding actually works is controversial; while it is known that the system does increase the amount of ice in clouds, it is difficult to ascertain whether this actually results in the alteration of rainfall patterns. Numerous scientific studies around the globe have unfortunately proved inconclusive.
In a country as dry as Australia, I wonder why more study isn't done into this vitally important science.
An ABC news story back in March this year sheds further light on this topic -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-02/what-is-cloud-seeding-and-how-does-it-work/9478282

On a a side note - I remember a few years ago, one Sydney radio station discussed this topic on it's breakfast program one morning.
One caller mentioned a cloud seeding trial that had been performed many years ago, over the Warragamba Dam catchment area. This is Sydney's main water supply.
He said that the rain produced actually missed the catchment area and fell in Sydney suburbs leading to local flash flooding.

 

[snafu]

I recon the Flinders is pretty much off limits, most of it's National park.

Actually, the National Park only covers a small area of the Flinders and regardless, it wouldn't be the first time a dam was in a NP - Kosciuszko being a good example.

Jeff

 

[Wishfull]

OK. Yep your right. So all that needs to be done now is to make it happen. Might be too late by the time politicians find the funds and bicker over plans infrastructure and native titles. Too much red tape these days. Instead of getting in and getting it done.