another doorstop

[Paydirt]

Gem scams coming out of India who would have thought. Spent some time there over the decades and they have been scamming westerners since the 80's at least. Hung out at Agra (Taj Mahal) for a while, also a big gem place where the unscrupulous will try to rort tourists at any opportunity. The scam in those days was to sell cut stones ('cheap') to backpackers who were going back to UK/Europe and tell/give them the name/address/contact details of their 'cousin' who lived there and would buy them off them at an inflated price to what they paid in India (under the auspice that the stone attract a tax if taken out of the country commercially but not as tourist 'gifts') - all BS. The friend I was travelling with in 89 fell for it, bought a heap of nicely cut aquamarines ($500 bucks worth was a small fortune to a uni student/bum/backpacker in those days - $500 was easily a month good living there) and proceeded to London - as you may have guessed the 'cousi bros' were bogus. What they (the scammers) hadn't factored into the equation was my friend was returning to India and would give a pitbull a good slapping given the chance. Needless to say she got her money back. Pretty sure the same scam is still being used against another generation of gullible, starry eyed, spiritually enhanced backpackers.
Buyer beware

 

[Paydirt]

On another trip over that way in the mid 90's (Pakistan this time) me and a mate bought up big on Lapis - spheres, eggs and big bit of uncut raw stone. Came back to Kal and sold the lot to the local lapidary shop for a handsome profit. Checked in with the owner months later to see how they had sold - really well except he broke one up to use in jewellery only to find it had been faked, pure white inside - something like quartzite or marble had been dyed blue and even had pyrite inclusions to add to the realism.
Lesson 1- buying overseas from untrusted sellers take a small bottle of solvent such as metho or petrol, a quick rub will not damage the real thing but will certainly tell you if it is a fake - mind you sellers are'nt usually impressed with your knowledge.

 

[Spud]

Mmmm excuse my ignorance here but if the stones are in fact real (fingers crossed )and worth a lot more money then what they are being sold for why would they be sold for such a low price on ebay?
If it is good quality what will you do with it? Cut it down into smaller stones and sell for more money? Sorry newbie learning the ins and outs here! :8

 

[shivan]

Lefty, i was thinking along the same lines, even if not gem quality you would think a sample that size would sell well as a mineral sample uncut and unpolished.... But truthfully i have no idea on prices So i could be wrong.

Paydirt, sounds like you have done a few miles, guessing you would have a few interesting stories to tell round the fire. I am guessing the dyed stone looked good until cut? Was it just the one that was bad or the lot?

 

[outboard]

http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=+rohitjewels&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home

In Australia it is a legal requirement of all parties involved in a financial transaction to be honest in many other countries it is up to the buyer to determine if the seller is honest

 

[Paydirt]

Lefty, i was thinking along the same lines, even if not gem quality you would think a sample that size would sell well as a mineral sample uncut and unpolished.... But truthfully i have no idea on prices So i could be wrong.

Paydirt, sounds like you have done a few miles, guessing you would have a few interesting stories to tell round the fire. I am guessing the dyed stone looked good until cut? Was it just the one that was bad or the lot?

Just the one - I dont think he was keen to break any others open to find out if they were all fakes. From memory I think it was a 'one off' buy from a street vendor - our mistake, but I think it was 'too cheap' to pass up - same old story - if it's too good to believe then it probably is, especially on the continent.
I also wish I was more into gems and mineral speciemens back then as it seems a lot of stones are now coming out of Himalayan areas I've spent a bit of time wandering around.

 

[Lefty]

Lefty, i was thinking along the same lines, even if not gem quality you would think a sample that size would sell well as a mineral sample uncut and unpolished.... But truthfully i have no idea on prices So i could be wrong.

Paydirt, sounds like you have done a few miles, guessing you would have a few interesting stories to tell round the fire. I am guessing the dyed stone looked good until cut? Was it just the one that was bad or the lot?

Yeah, I just don't know. I'm really only familiar with sapphire from the Anakie field and I've never seen anything that looks like that - even the non-gem quality stuff doesn't resemble it.

But a bit of reading suggests that corundum does occur in massive form, particularly in Africa. It was once mined as a source of industrial abrasive due to it's extreme hardness. I have also seen a hexagonal crystal with a cross-section about the size of a match box here in Australia that was called "Ruby" (it was stolen from a gem and mineral dealer at a gem show). It wasn't transparent and I don't know how much it was selling for but the material did resemble Kawman's ruby to some extent.

Paydirt - I saw some pretty amazing fakes on a website a while ago (can't remember what it was called). The turquoise in particular was so real and so natural-looking you would never have known until you broke it open that it was just some kind of plaster/ceramic, skillfully dyed blue on the outside.

If that stuff is in fact corundum, it should indeed make a good doorstop since it should be pretty bloody heavy for it's size

 

[Martin]

Wouldn't surprise me if this is man made. A lot of fakes are on eBay.

Buying fossils on eBay is risky also. Especially sharks teeth.

 

[kawman]

OK.. the "emerald" has arrived and we will have a good look at it... the green dye will come off using metho.. but the seller says the stone is colour enhanced using standard methods?? A hardened steel screwdriver will not mark it.. a piece of sapphire will mark it. the stone weighs 184.5 grams and weighs 74.5 grams suspended in water.. can one off you kind chaps complete the specific gravity test as I cant.. If its a scam we will bring the house down on the seller.. I will not leave feedback until we have tested all three stones.. good fun this.. I will add that the stone is semi translucent but cant see very far in..

 

[shivan]

The only colour enhancing methods i know of are heat treatment, irradiation, or dying. Sounds like yours is the latter, so maybe it was a chunk of beryl they dyed green to call emerald? Any chance you could take a photo where the colour has come off?
I will see if i can work out the specific gravity calc for you, gimme a bit

 

[kawman]

the stone has a lot of fine and bigger cracks in it... the dye is coming out of these... wiping the stone with metho has not left any uncoloured bleached looking stone..

 

[shivan]

Ok specific gravity is dry weight divided by wet weight so 184.5/74.5=2.48 Beryl SG is 2.7-2.8

 

[kawman]

SO.... what is it then.. here is a pic.

 

[kawman]

I have been looking at this stone and a piece of quartz will not scratch it... I am waiting on a piece of tourmaline to arrive to scratch test it with.. When I get all three stones I will take them to my mates paint buis.. he has some seriously good scales ( these rocks are fairly heavy for my small set and may not be accurate) this is turning out to be a big learning thing for me about hardness and SG.. It goes on..... Trying to work out what the stone really is is taking a lot of research.. good fun

 

[Twapster]

Looks like you are learning a lot, and having fun in the process. Keeping an eye on this thread!

 

[DanielGOLD]

Interesting reading and love the size of that rock....WOW.!!

 

[dezman]

It's a Neolithic Emerald axe head made for the king to keep the misses inline or a door stop!
Good investment me thinks.

 

[Dughug]

Take a look at this site which breaks up fake minerals into various subjects/treatments

http://www.fakeminerals.com/new-fake-minerals-guide-on-the-vug-com/

 

[Dughug]

Another site that deals with fake gems & minerals

http://www.the-vug.com/vug/vugfakes.html

 

[kawman]

great linc dughug... the stones have all arrived.. the blue sapphire is a fake as the guys thought, real rough sapphire scratches the shit out of it.. we have not done a specific gravity test yet.. I will work out what the stone is eventually.. now onto the "ruby" it is much harder than my fake sapphire, my rough sapphire will not scratch it... by the time I have worked out what the stones really are I will have a very good feel for hardness that will be handy as time goes on.. .