Actually Building the Machine!
- Thread starter Nena
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I saw some info that more and more commercial firms are buying or building machines them selves that have a precision lower than 10 microns now.
They must have seen that there is a market for those machines and the simplicity for cutting the stone in-house. Im not talking about the Asian multi stone machines that cut for bulk, these machines are only cutting 1 stone at a time. I think this is going to become standard in a couple of years and the people that facet by hand is going to be obsolete.
Your machine is probably going to be more versatile though.
Dont know if less movement and less cutting options will give better accuracy, but this seem to be the way some of the machines are made.
They must have seen that there is a market for those machines and the simplicity for cutting the stone in-house. Im not talking about the Asian multi stone machines that cut for bulk, these machines are only cutting 1 stone at a time. I think this is going to become standard in a couple of years and the people that facet by hand is going to be obsolete.
Your machine is probably going to be more versatile though.
Dont know if less movement and less cutting options will give better accuracy, but this seem to be the way some of the machines are made.
Lower that 1/100th! Thats sound good, but i wonder if they going to get it all right, the machine could cut under the 1/100th but the machine isnt under the 1/100 My machine will be around the 1 or 2/100th but the cutting accuracy is at 5/100.000th Mmm i wonder what they will do, cutting under vacuum?! lol A machine that is special build for that accuracy will cost the normal man around the $10.000 if they want to build as i do the machine will cost around the $100.000. Mmmzz whats the diffrents... LOL I hope i get to see one soon!
But...
I hope i can let my machine run as i want. And didnt saw manny companies build one. If only the sensors already cost about 1500 euro's how can they build a artfordable machine for the people?! I dont think they will and can. It will cost too much for normal people like you and me. And it will never be produced in mass production.
My machine will be around the 1 or 2/100th but the cutting accuracy is at 5/100.000th Mmm i wonder what they will do, cutting under vacuum?! lol A machine that is special build for that accuracy will cost the normal man around the $10.000 if they want to build as i do the machine will cost around the $100.000. Mmmzz whats the diffrents... LOL I hope i get to see one soon!But...
I hope i can let my machine run as i want. And didnt saw manny companies build one. If only the sensors already cost about 1500 euro's how can they build a artfordable machine for the people?! I dont think they will and can. It will cost too much for normal people like you and me. And it will never be produced in mass production.
One of the machines Im thinking about is already up and running, with a <= 10 micron precision. But it can only do normal cut stones.
Your machine is going to be better, more versatile. The problem lies in the accuracy of the lap. Maybe it can be custom made to fit your needs though.
An UT or a VJ costs a hefty sum, and they are only manual machines. When people facet for a living, they tend to be willing to pay for it too.
The manual machines will probably never disappear, but how will they be able to make any money on their stones if companies are using automated machines that cut as good as they do and faster. The problem with automated machines until now is that they havent been that good in cutting with precision.
And you will probably prove that this can be done.
Your machine is going to be better, more versatile. The problem lies in the accuracy of the lap. Maybe it can be custom made to fit your needs though.
An UT or a VJ costs a hefty sum, and they are only manual machines. When people facet for a living, they tend to be willing to pay for it too.
The manual machines will probably never disappear, but how will they be able to make any money on their stones if companies are using automated machines that cut as good as they do and faster. The problem with automated machines until now is that they havent been that good in cutting with precision.
And you will probably prove that this can be done.
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lm new to this forum nena have read all the posts to date.lm a tool maker from way back and have a lot of respect for what you are doing.Keep up the good work.
A Lap will only get that flat when it is used to cut stones. A new lap is not flat. But im wonder do you have a link or an article of the machine?! <= 1/100th is oke, but im more interrested about the build and what capabilities of the machine are.
I just send my order for the sensors, knowing that i still need to get some $ for these but im almost there I want to complete the build. I also think that i better can use 2 pieces 25mm linear rail for the y axis. Becourse its a contineus motion axis and i think one 35mm rail is to heavy for the motor. First i need the sensors to continue building the machine. Also my friend will turn three of the spindels for setting up the lap (y and z axis) and for the cutting head (y axis). I will add these in case i want to go to greather laps then 8 inch.
>thegoldman24
Welcome! I wonder how many people are looking to the forum. I even think company's are looking here for the build. LOL Your all welcome!
I just send my order for the sensors, knowing that i still need to get some $ for these but im almost there
I want to complete the build. I also think that i better can use 2 pieces 25mm linear rail for the y axis. Becourse its a contineus motion axis and i think one 35mm rail is to heavy for the motor. First i need the sensors to continue building the machine. Also my friend will turn three of the spindels for setting up the lap (y and z axis) and for the cutting head (y axis). I will add these in case i want to go to greather laps then 8 inch.>thegoldman24
Welcome! I wonder how many people are looking to the forum. I even think company's are looking here for the build. LOL Your all welcome!
Yes Nena, keep us informed of your progress. Wife and I just bought a 2nd hand Hall Mk V faceting machine. our enjoyment will be in the learning.
Finding our stones and cutting them will be a satisfying experience for us as we travel the Grey Nomad trails.
ray
Finding our stones and cutting them will be a satisfying experience for us as we travel the Grey Nomad trails.
ray
Hello again
Just saw a emerald cut stone here at minerama, clear stone with approx 1/4 amethyst colour. the ends were cut to throw the colour the full length of the stone when moved to reflect the light. The guy who faceted the stone was changing the angles to suit the stone, which would be a little difficult with an automated machine.
Just saw a emerald cut stone here at minerama, clear stone with approx 1/4 amethyst colour. the ends were cut to throw the colour the full length of the stone when moved to reflect the light. The guy who faceted the stone was changing the angles to suit the stone, which would be a little difficult with an automated machine.
If i get my software all right it should not be a problem to change it to the given settings. I already made a algorithm for the drawings so i can alter/change everything to my settings. For example, one facet should not be cutted at a angle of 40 degrees but at 41.2354 degrees i can change that, all other facets will be 40 degrees but that only one wil be 41.23... So im not limited. Thats the cool thing about automatic and homebrewn software Im not limited!
Im not limited!They are really secret about their build and only tell how it is going with it. The company is called betterthandiamonds, and they cut the amora diamonds with this machine. Its moissanite, a lab grown diamond with a hardness of 9.25. The machine is called TIGER-2. They are building several machines, TIGER 1-7 I think. Only cutting one shape per machine, round, cushion, hearts and so on.
If looked at that company but they will never publish the machines to the public, and im shure those machines will be sold over the 100k in price! There is no chance ill get there and also for the most it will be difficult to get a machine from them. It's still a problem for the most to create a working machine, its too expensive to build one, unless you can do what i can and that is doing it all yourself :- ). Time doesnt matter.
I have seen others that do these type of machines but they are often sold for the public and the price is high in compare what they get. For example there is a simple machine on youtube it does its work but only build for one type of cut. The machine is for sale for a ''small'' 12.000 usd! The machine is all straight foreward the only problem is, its not for quality... If i count the parts and the aluminium parts it could be made for a small 1.000 euro's (1.200 usd) And still having the problem for the software!
betterthandiamonds labetories is a robotic lab industie so they have money to build sutch, they dont care if something is failing! They throw everything away and build a new one! They got the money to experiment.
Soon i have my own to experiment with lol for les then 5000 euro's!
I have seen others that do these type of machines but they are often sold for the public and the price is high in compare what they get. For example there is a simple machine on youtube it does its work but only build for one type of cut. The machine is for sale for a ''small'' 12.000 usd! The machine is all straight foreward the only problem is, its not for quality... If i count the parts and the aluminium parts it could be made for a small 1.000 euro's (1.200 usd) And still having the problem for the software!
betterthandiamonds labetories is a robotic lab industie so they have money to build sutch, they dont care if something is failing! They throw everything away and build a new one! They got the money to experiment.
Soon i have my own to experiment with
lol for les then 5000 euro's!I didnt say that they were selling the machine, just saying that the machine exist. But you are right they have the money to spend on developing it, thats probably why they are building 7 of them. I know they had a legal dispute with their former machine builder, but that seems to be solved now and they have moved on with another builder or by themselves.
There will be more people building machines soon I think. Parts can be manufactured with better precision now and cheaper if you compare it with 10-15 years ago. The programming is more advanced too. Of course you will need the cash or the knowledge to do it yourself.
I know of several machines in the 20k range, the problem with them is still the precision. But now there seem to be several new ones that stand up to the tests. This will force the machine manufacturers to up their precision standards if they still want to be in the game.
I know they had a legal dispute with their former machine builder, but that seems to be solved now and they have moved on with another builder or by themselves.There will be more people building machines soon I think. Parts can be manufactured with better precision now and cheaper if you compare it with 10-15 years ago. The programming is more advanced too. Of course you will need the cash or the knowledge to do it yourself.
I know of several machines in the 20k range, the problem with them is still the precision. But now there seem to be several new ones that stand up to the tests. This will force the machine manufacturers to up their precision standards if they still want to be in the game.
Let me say this: There will be good machines for faceting, the'll never get to the public due precision limits and costs. Good parts are still to expensive. Good machines need good parts. I'm not a company im just somebody, this machine i build is just homemade, for fun, and to get some money out of it. If some one gives me a good offer with 5 zero's ill sell the complete thing and build a new one But thats not the intension! I realy dont care what companies are building becourse it is toooo expensive what they build. Also too complex for one person to build. I aleady got troubles with some of the things. Somethings will cost several weeks to get it right. Im a bit sceptic what im searching for are people that made there own automatic faceting, but i cant find them! Yeah, some but they are only talking but never saw any photo's not even a drawing of a part!. Dont know what the problem is but it seems that there are some problems to it.
But thats not the intension! I realy dont care what companies are building becourse it is toooo expensive what they build. Also too complex for one person to build. I aleady got troubles with some of the things. Somethings will cost several weeks to get it right. Im a bit sceptic what im searching for are people that made there own automatic faceting, but i cant find them! Yeah, some but they are only talking but never saw any photo's not even a drawing of a part!. Dont know what the problem is but it seems that there are some problems to it.Totally agree with you on the part with people building their own machines. Many talk about it but never deliver, myself included. I found that it would be to hard for me to build one, or more the programming behind it would be to hard or to expensive to have programmed.
Check out the former machine builder for betterthandiamonds, its klm technology and they have the jang machine. Single stone cutting and a cost of 20k. It has good precision, but not under 10 microns. Atleast not yet, but they are making upgrades all the time. Several professional cutters use it for identical pair cutting or for small size stones. I think you can contact the man behind the machine, his name is Kiwon Jang and he is a professional cutter and programmer.
If you have a business and a good customer list then there will be a gain in buying an expensive machine that cuts the stones for you. Even if you take a loan for it.
This being said, I think your machine is going to be better and your machine is going to be more versatile as I said before.
The parts for your machine cost more than 5k if you count the parts you didn't buy and the programming behind it.
Check out the former machine builder for betterthandiamonds, its klm technology and they have the jang machine. Single stone cutting and a cost of 20k. It has good precision, but not under 10 microns. Atleast not yet, but they are making upgrades all the time. Several professional cutters use it for identical pair cutting or for small size stones. I think you can contact the man behind the machine, his name is Kiwon Jang and he is a professional cutter and programmer.
If you have a business and a good customer list then there will be a gain in buying an expensive machine that cuts the stones for you. Even if you take a loan for it.
This being said, I think your machine is going to be better and your machine is going to be more versatile as I said before.
The parts for your machine cost more than 5k if you count the parts you didn't buy and the programming behind it.
The machine will cost me 5k but i use 40k on parts mayby more But who cares im a hobyist! I have the time to build one, taking care of my familie and building a machine in my free time lol Having some lol, some stress its oke I like doing this, but i also want to do this for my little girl And it is cool to see something run automaticly thats made by your own hands lol. Today i contacted RLS for the sensors and ask them if they could make an invoice for just the 2 rotary sensors so that i can go on with my build. The linear sensor will come a bit later becourse the money... I Want to build the base now for the machine and i think ill going to do that by using 60x30 aluminium, its cheap, strong and you can get manny things for it, also i have worked before with that typ of extrusion, i can even put an iron bar in the aluminium to strongen the aluminium. It will cost some more aluminium but its a nice type of aluminium to work with! I think the base is going to be around the 1400mm x 600mm But ill draw it first!
But who cares im a hobyist! I have the time to build one, taking care of my familie and building a machine in my free time lol Having some lol, some stress its oke I like doing this, but i also want to do this for my little girl And it is cool to see something run automaticly thats made by your own hands lol. Today i contacted RLS for the sensors and ask them if they could make an invoice for just the 2 rotary sensors so that i can go on with my build. The linear sensor will come a bit later becourse the money... I Want to build the base now for the machine and i think ill going to do that by using 60x30 aluminium, its cheap, strong and you can get manny things for it, also i have worked before with that typ of extrusion, i can even put an iron bar in the aluminium to strongen the aluminium. It will cost some more aluminium but its a nice type of aluminium to work with! I think the base is going to be around the 1400mm x 600mm But ill draw it first!Good parts cost money as you said.
Good plan, the stronger and firmer you build the frame the less risk you have for it to differ in precision later on. Specially for the weight you will put on it.
Please put up some pictures when you are done with the drawings, always fun to see what you have planned.
Good plan, the stronger and firmer you build the frame the less risk you have for it to differ in precision later on. Specially for the weight you will put on it.
Please put up some pictures when you are done with the drawings, always fun to see what you have planned.
I already sold some of my things and i got the space now for the machine I sold 2 dressers and WOW what a space now lol I have put every spindle and linear guide as i want to have them, only the last 2 should be vertical. And the 2 without the guide cars i still dont no what to do with them lol! mayby for the lapp changer. But thats also a thing where i didnt thougth about how im going to do that but i first need something to start with, a base!
3 of the 5 spindles need a change in size. The 2 at the back wont be automatic but manual, for the lap setup. The front one will be the X1 axis and the one on top will be the Y axis. The X2 is a mistery yet lol Im also not shure about the 470mm 35mm guide for the Y axis. I think im going to use 2 pieces of 25mm guides with 4 cars on it.
I sold 2 dressers and WOW what a space now lol I have put every spindle and linear guide as i want to have them, only the last 2 should be vertical. And the 2 without the guide cars i still dont no what to do with them lol! mayby for the lapp changer. But thats also a thing where i didnt thougth about how im going to do that but i first need something to start with, a base!
3 of the 5 spindles need a change in size. The 2 at the back wont be automatic but manual, for the lap setup. The front one will be the X1 axis and the one on top will be the Y axis. The X2 is a mistery yet
lol Im also not shure about the 470mm 35mm guide for the Y axis. I think im going to use 2 pieces of 25mm guides with 4 cars on it.Haha, are you selling all furniture in your house now?
Going to be so awesome when you get the frame up, can almost see it in front of me now.
Is it going to have legs or are you putting it on some sort of table? Do you know the complete weight of the machine?
I would go with 4 cars, isnt it going to be more firm then?
By the way, do you have the runout on all the axes or that will have to be measured when you have all in place?
Going to be so awesome when you get the frame up, can almost see it in front of me now.
Is it going to have legs or are you putting it on some sort of table? Do you know the complete weight of the machine?
I would go with 4 cars, isnt it going to be more firm then?
By the way, do you have the runout on all the axes or that will have to be measured when you have all in place?
Didnt measure the runout from all axis.. becourse i use the sensors for position everything. All what you see is from Rexroth. Only the bearings are from INA (Super Precision Bearings) Guide rails are all 35mm and the ballscrews are 25mm Speed 5mm and 25mm. I have bought some ball screws only for the bearings lol I love those bearings from INA But i cant buy them new.... 650 euro's each... using 5 of them in my machine... I will use 2 rails from 25mm i think for the Y axis... But still need to get those, found already some rails for about 20 euro's each new! But didnt found any guide cars yet. I still have about 50 of them but i need to clean them but i want to use good ones.
Hehehe ya, i needed space to build the machine i sold 2 dressers to get some space in my working room I dont know what the weight will be but only the rails is about 10cm 1kg... thats about 60kg on rails... lol
I love those bearings from INA But i cant buy them new.... 650 euro's each... using 5 of them in my machine... I will use 2 rails from 25mm i think for the Y axis... But still need to get those, found already some rails for about 20 euro's each new! But didnt found any guide cars yet. I still have about 50 of them but i need to clean them but i want to use good ones.Hehehe ya, i needed space to build the machine
i sold 2 dressers to get some space in my working room I dont know what the weight will be but only the rails is about 10cm 1kg... thats about 60kg on rails... lolWow, it's going to be heavy.
You have definitely not spared any money on the parts, precision all through.
Is the aluminum frame high precision too? I think that is one of the problems some of the new machines have had, if the frame isn't precision straight then It doesn't matter if the rest is. But that all depends on how you build it I guess.
You have definitely not spared any money on the parts, precision all through.
Is the aluminum frame high precision too? I think that is one of the problems some of the new machines have had, if the frame isn't precision straight then It doesn't matter if the rest is. But that all depends on how you build it I guess.
