Aussie Tow Ball / Tongue weights ?

[Ridge Runner]

I was checking out a Link that Dog Ranger posted on another thread and within that link there were many others and one of them I found was about Towing weights and Tongue weights "Tow ball weights" and GCM's "gross combination mass" etc.

I have been doing a lot of researching this because over here a lot of it is TOOO much of a nanny state complex, My Trucks Kerb weight is 1810kgs, Loaded it is 2510/2610kgs and it's GCM is 5410kgs which is a fair ol limp of a trailer, But then It came down to the Tongue weights, So I was checking out youtube and watching videos of American Camper/Caravans and some of their Tongue weights are up in fantasy land up around 850kgs, Where as in the EU they are mainly around 80kgs to 130kgs.

On that link I found on the Aussie Site they were talking about Towing Caravans up to 7000kgs and one of the main issues was the Tongue / Ball Weights, It seems like America and Australia have both gone down the same route when it comes to Towing, What the Writer in the link I found failed to mention is that the F-250 and Dodge Ram and the Chevy 2500's quoted towing weights are not Trailers that can be towed by a Tow Ball, But are in fact a Trailer that can be Towed by a Chassis Mounted Fifth Wheel Attachment/System.

All this aside It seems that most Aussie Caravans and American models seem to all have heavy Nose/Tow Ball weights, Using the Aussie system being that the Tow Ball weight should be around 10% of the Trailers Weight seems more realistic compared to the ratings over here, Having towed loads all over Australia I think I know a little bit about towing,

The Caravan Club over here is a world wide bunch and they recommend NOT Towing a caravan that weighs more than 80% of the Tow vehicles Unladden weight which is stupid because in that case most cars would only end up towing an 800/1100 kg camper. So while they are telling me this I am thinking "Yeah Right" D*****ad", Knowing that My Truck can gross out at 5.4 Ton You can guess what I am thinking ??, Then they proceed to tell me that "BUT" if you are experience you should be able to Tow right up to the FULL Unladden weight of your Tow Vehicle, So now I am up to 3620Kgs,

Seeing the funny side of this I am thinking these people are just nutz and I resign to the fact that the Government has Certified/Stated via the ID Tags in the Engine bay that this Truck can Gross 5410kgs+/- NOT 3620Kgs.

So Now It really turns silly because they rate The Vehicles Tow ball weight being the Limit and Caravans come with a suggested Tongue weight IE 85 to 110kgs etc, But this Tow Ball Weight is the amount of Vertical Pressure/Weight placed on the Hitch/Tow Ball, So the 10% Law/Recommendation in Australia goes right out the window, because Towing a fully laden Caravan weighing 1850kgs for my truck can't have a greater nose weight of more than 6.21% which is equal to 115kgs,

All these silly people just added to the confusion So I called a major Towing Accessory Company and he was really good because I was ready to buy an even heavier Tow Ball / Hitch Pin Set up when he told me that I already had the heaviest type already fitted and the next option was to fit the type that Trucks use for towing Dog Trailers, So all good there,

But This Tow Ball weight thing really bugs me, Because in this link there is a Discovery 4 towing a Tri Axled Caravan In Australia, Now I know that big bugga is going to have a heck of a noes weight of well over 300-400kgs,

Can someone please look up and try to find what the Noes weight/ or Ball weight is for a Mitsubishi 2003 Challenger is because it is not on the ID plate of my Vehicle and the hand book that came with the Truck is from another Vehicle,

Thanks Guys,

Here's that Towing link,

https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/why-our-towing-laws-are-ridiculous-119086/

 

[grubstake]

I found this:
https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2003-mitsubishi-challenger-pa-my03/spot-itm-257550

But the only weights mentioned are these:

 

[Ridge Runner]

I found this:
https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2003-mitsubishi-challenger-pa-my03/spot-itm-257550

But the only weights mentioned are these:https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/4012/1562333002_challenger_03.jpg

Thanks Grub, see even those Specs are different to mine,

this is what I got from the hand book but the weights do not match what is written on the Tags on under the bonnet.

Kerb weight 1810kgs and towing 1910kgs.

Gross Vehicle weight is 2510kgs and towing 2610kgs.

Front Axle weight is 1200kgs

Rear Axle weight is 1500kgs or 1600kgs when Towing

Gross Towable weight BRAKED 2800kgs

Gross Towable weight Unbraked 750kgs,

Maximum Trailer Nose weight 115kgs,

But the Government Weights on my ID Tags are,

Kerb weight 1810kgs

Laden weight 2510kgs ( GVM ) Giving a 700kg Load Capacity,

Gross Combination Mass 5410kgs, Vs Aussie Challenger 4700kgs - 710kgs less because my Towable weight works out to be 2900kgs not 2270kgs

Which places it with a higher GCM than the Aussie Challenger Version, Now I always thought that the Challenger came with Leaf springs making it stronger, But mine Being a Shogun Sport has Disc's all round and Torsion bars in the front and Coils in the rear.

Yet the new L200 Duel Cab has been rated here with a 3500kg Towing capacity, and then I see something like a Disco 4 and a Cruiser 200 series in Australia towing something like, Maa HoooSive Roma Tri Axle Trailer weighing in at 3000/3500kgs with a Tongue weight of 350Kgs when the discovery here has a Tongue weight / Nose Weight of 150kgs

Discovery 4 Nose weight,

https://www.towbarexpress.co.uk/towbars/land-rover-towbars/land-rover-discovery-towbars/

Discovery 4 In Australia Towing with 350kgs Nose Weight, Awesome Caraven in this Link once you click on the pictures :inlove: :heart: :inlove:

https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/roma-elegance-triple-axle-48314/

It seems like they have down graded the Capacities In Australia on the Mitsubishi's and here they have down graded to Discovery 4's Nose weight to 42.8% of what they are rated at in Australia,

Where this all goes wrong is over here when you travel over seas which many folks do, A person could find them selves breaking the law without even knowing it, because a lot of folks travel the globe using 4x4's

 

[Balmain Bob]

Hi RR,
Have you had a look at the tow bar fitted to you vehicle?

There should a plate attached to it that will give you this information. Tow bar rating / Max Ball Weight

I know that the Patrol tow bar has one and the old commodore I owned had on as well.
It states max tow weight and max tow ball/ Download weight allowed.

I know with the patrol there are a few different rated tow bars available .

A quick check on Ebay shows that there are different tow bars available for your vehicle that all show the rating plate

I just had a look at the compliance plate on the Patrol and the max ball weight isnt stated on there either

Bob

 

[Ridge Runner]

Hi RR,
Have you had a look at the tow bar fitted to you vehicle?

There should a plate attached to it that will give you this information. Tow bar rating / Max Ball Weight

I know that the Patrol tow bar has one and the old commodore I owned had on as well.
It states max tow weight and max tow ball/ Download weight allowed.

I know with the patrol there are a few different rated tow bars available .

A quick check on Ebay shows that there are different tow bars available for your vehicle that all show the rating plate

I just had a look at the compliance plate on the Patrol and the max ball weight isnt stated on there either

Bob

Thanks Bob, well I had a look around it and I can't see anything on there either, I keep finding the figure of 2800kgs But that don't match my Vehicle ID Tags that state a GVM of 2510kgs and a GCM of 5410kgs which works out to be 2900 kgs not 2800kgs,

I have searched and searched and a couple of sites say 115kgs Tow ball weight which is stupidly Low and this hand book says the same Yet Mitsubishi Australia state that the Tow Ball Weight should be kept between 5 and 10% of the Gross Trailer weight,

Bottom line it is a stupid thing to add a Tow ball weight limit to a Vehicle because a Trailers Tow ball weight changes from Trailer to trailer, IE If by chance using a Discovery 4 where in Aus it has a Tow Ball weight of 350kgs then that would make it illegal for a Disco 4 to Tow a 6x4 box trailer because there is no way could you load up a 6x4 trailers Draw Bar to take that kind of weight in order to get it to weigh 350kgs.

According to Mitsubishi Australia The Tow Ball Weight should be kept within 5% and 10% of the Gross Trailer Weight. which makes total sense to me, when towing a 2900kg trailer means I should have a Ball weight of 145 to 290kgs. but to list a Ball weight of only 115kgs is just asking for trouble @ 3.96%.

John.

 

[Aussiedigs]

I think you are getting confused with it all.

If a towbar has a ball weight rating of say 150 kg, that means the MAXIMUM weight you can put over the towbar/ball is 150 kg. Nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle or the caravan. You can exceed this weight if you load your van with an emphasis toward the front.

Use one of these to measure your towball weight and when loading the van.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camec-B...032407&hash=item4d659e2b64:g:w2sAAOSwSutaHQLk

 

[Balmain Bob]

John,
If you have those figures stamped on the compliance plate then work with those. Most models of vehicle sold have many variations to them so finding details on your setup may be hard.
You will still need to find out what rating your tow bar is. You wouldnt want to be towing a 2900kg trailer with a tow bar that is rated at only 1200kg

Bob

 

[Ridge Runner]

John,
If you have those figures stamped on the compliance plate then work with those. Most models of vehicle sold have many variations to them so finding details on your setup may be hard.
You will still need to find out what rating your tow bar is. You wouldnt want to be towing a 2900kg trailer with a tow bar that is rated at only 1200kg

Bob

Thanks again Bob, My Tow Bar is huge for an SUV/Truck chassis But the Tow Ball I have is Rated to 17Kn of force and 200Kgs of downward weight,

This it the one I have, The specs are further down the page,

https://www.towingandtrailers.com/p...ls-2/bradley-e40tc-3500kg-ball-pin-towball-2/

John.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I think you are getting confused with it all.

If a towbar has a ball weight rating of say 150 kg, that means the MAXIMUM weight you can put over the towbar/ball is 150 kg. Nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle or the caravan. You can exceed this weight if you load your van with an emphasis toward the front.

Use one of these to measure your towball weight and when loading the van.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camec-B...032407&hash=item4d659e2b64:g:w2sAAOSwSutaHQLk

The only ones like those I have found are the 130kg versions,

 

[madtuna]

What are you towing?

 

[Gilly47]

My understanding is that, where not stated by the Tow Vehicle manufacturer then 1.5 times the vehicle weight will be the towing weight, then 10% of the gross towed vehicle weight for ball weight. couplings should reflect these numbers, so load the towed vehicle with no more than 10% on the ball and any residual to the wheeled axles until you reach the stated gross.

My rig is a 5.5ton NPR isuzu with a towbar rated to 3500kg towing capacity, because I have an american built van, I have a 1 and 5/16 inch towball with a stated townig weight of 10000 lbs.

and confusion reigned and reigned and reigned.

ray 8.( :zzz: :100: oop: oop: oop:

 

[Ridge Runner]

What are you towing?

I have seen a 26ft Caravan I got my eye on and It don't weigh that much but the Ball weight is a bit higher than the figures I found,

My Tow ball is uprated to 200kg and I uprated my tyres from 930kgs per tyre to 1380/1400kgs per tyre, My springs can handle the load although I might uprate them by 20%,

The problems I see is that although a lot of campers only weigh around 1500 to 2100kgs they have ridiculously high Tow ball weight due to the Axles being set too far back,

Like this little Jayco for instance it weighs 1350kgs yet it has a Tow ball weight of 150kgs, Yet my truck can Tow 2900kgs but some figures say it's Tow Ball weight is 115kgs, But because things like that Jayco have 150kg Ball weight puts it off limits even though my truck can tow more than Twice 1350kgs,

https://www.jayco.com.au/promo/crosstrak

Personally I think that Mitsubishi know best when they say the Ball weight should be between 5 and 10% of the trailers gross weight.

J.

 

[Wally69]

My understanding is that, where not stated by the Tow Vehicle manufacturer then 1.5 times the vehicle weight will be the towing weight, then 10% of the gross towed vehicle weight for ball weight. couplings should reflect these numbers, so load the towed vehicle with no more than 10% on the ball and any residual to the wheeled axles until you reach the stated gross.

My rig is a 5.5ton NPR isuzu with a towbar rated to 3500kg towing capacity, because I have an american built van, I have a 1 and 5/16 inch towball with a stated townig weight of 10000 lbs.

and confusion reigned and reigned and reigned.

ray 8.( :zzz: :100: oop: oop: oop:

Geeezz Ray, I was going to hit the report button

This is a happy hour conversation, you should be out there collecting sapphires and posting cool photos of wonderful stones.

 

[Gilly47]

wally We are sitting inside watching the rain here in Anakie, the clay up here sticks like oop: to a blanket, so will wait it out till the mud sets a little. Also chilly to boot ATM

ray

 

[Wally69]

wally We are sitting inside watching the rain here in Anakie, the clay up here sticks like oop: to a blanket, so will wait it out till the mud sets a little. Also chilly to boot ATM

ray

Yep, figured that may have been the case {) rumour has it that if you put a pair of socks over your boots, the mud falls off the socks and prevents you from getting progressively taller.

Hopefully there will be lots of shiny stones eroded from the earth once the sun come back out

 

[Aussiedigs]

I think you are getting confused with it all.

If a towbar has a ball weight rating of say 150 kg, that means the MAXIMUM weight you can put over the towbar/ball is 150 kg. Nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle or the caravan. You can exceed this weight if you load your van with an emphasis toward the front.

Use one of these to measure your towball weight and when loading the van.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camec-B...032407&hash=item4d659e2b64:g:w2sAAOSwSutaHQLk

The only ones like those I have found are the 130kg versions,

Run two of them.

Van weight and towing capacity should have nothing to do with the towbar ball weight. The towbar should have a ball weight rating. Lets say 150kg. Then you are only able to use a van with a coupling weight of up to 150kg. Lets say a van has a coupling weight of 170kg. If you load the van up with gear behind the rear axle, you can achieve a coupling weight of 150kg or less.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I think you are getting confused with it all.

If a towbar has a ball weight rating of say 150 kg, that means the MAXIMUM weight you can put over the towbar/ball is 150 kg. Nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle or the caravan. You can exceed this weight if you load your van with an emphasis toward the front.

Use one of these to measure your towball weight and when loading the van.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camec-B...032407&hash=item4d659e2b64:g:w2sAAOSwSutaHQLk

The only ones like those I have found are the 130kg versions,

Run two of them.

Van weight and towing capacity should have nothing to do with the towbar ball weight. The towbar should have a ball weight rating. Lets say 150kg. Then you are only able to use a van with a coupling weight of up to 150kg. Lets say a van has a coupling weight of 170kg. If you load the van up with gear behind the rear axle, you can achieve a coupling weight of 150kg or less.

The only ID/Specs I can see on the Tow Bar is on the Tow Ball it's self The one on there has a S rating of 150kgs but my bigger one has an S rating of 200kgs @ 3500kgs, So I guess I will take it at that and use those numbers as a starting point.

I have not seen any Trailers over here with a heavy Ball weight, American Caravans have Ball weights going up to and over 1000Lbs.

 

[ctxkid]

my Zook has a ball weight of 120kg , will tow 1900kg it's all in the balance

 

[Ridge Runner]

my Zook has a ball weight of 120kg , will tow 1900kg it's all in the balance

At the end of the year or early next year I am going to be looking at that new Suzuki, I really like the new one that just came out, As long as I can fold the rear seat flat and get my ARB's in there that's all that matters,,

I need 850mm of space to get the 78L in there, great little Trucks, :Y:

 

[Aussiedigs]

I think you are getting confused with it all.

If a towbar has a ball weight rating of say 150 kg, that means the MAXIMUM weight you can put over the towbar/ball is 150 kg. Nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle or the caravan. You can exceed this weight if you load your van with an emphasis toward the front.

Use one of these to measure your towball weight and when loading the van.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camec-B...032407&hash=item4d659e2b64:g:w2sAAOSwSutaHQLk

The only ones like those I have found are the 130kg versions,

Run two of them.

Van weight and towing capacity should have nothing to do with the towbar ball weight. The towbar should have a ball weight rating. Lets say 150kg. Then you are only able to use a van with a coupling weight of up to 150kg. Lets say a van has a coupling weight of 170kg. If you load the van up with gear behind the rear axle, you can achieve a coupling weight of 150kg or less.

The only ID/Specs I can see on the Tow Bar is on the Tow Ball it's self The one on there has a S rating of 150kgs but my bigger one has an S rating of 200kgs @ 3500kgs, So I guess I will take it at that and use those numbers as a starting point.

I have not seen any Trailers over here with a heavy Ball weight, American Caravans have Ball weights going up to and over 1000Lbs.

Forget the towball rating. Is there a brand on the towbar? Id be researching who made bars for your particular vehicle. Ask Mitsubishi. They should be able provide some info on brand etc then contact the manufacturer if Mitsubishi cant provide a rating. If you cant come up with anything, id prob work off around a 150kg. Keep heavy gear rearward to maintain 150kg or less. Your bar would have to be at least this.