SDC versus 5000 - counterproductive ads?

[loamer]

I would like to post this speculative theory after reading posts on the SDC's capabilities, especially its capability on small gold. This appears to be the most highly reported success stories thus far.

If you cast your minds back, the 5000 was heavily advertised with the fine gold timing which at the time was considered the break-through for finding small gold. It was an over-night success and basically created the impression that so far as the 4500 was concerned, it, the 4500, was redundant. If you like, it was an updated 4500, but with clearly other timings included, that opened up a whole new world.

Now it seems, and this is my impression, that by Minelabs own advertising, the 5000, especially the fine gold setting, has been superseded. Have they inadvertently canned their best detector for the sake of taking on the ATX?

Now, would it be better for us to keep our 4500s and buy an SDC to get, what appears to be, a better combination, as I am sure the SDC will have a greater capability than the 5000s fine gold setting? For example, run the 4500 with a larger mono, which is probably 95% as capable as the 5000 and then use the SDC as a clean out detector on patches. Better still, run the SDC on mullock heaps, shallow ground etc without the hassle of running a super small coil,say 6" mono, on a 4500 AND running a 6" coil is a major hassle -balance is all out, halving is a nightmare etc.

So, do I save my money and not upgrade to a 5000 and simply buy an SDC which will hit the used market probably within the next 12 months in numbers. Keep my 4500 and run it with an SDC. Is this what Minelab actually wants or did they want to take on the ATX. Their advertising pushes it as not being as good as the 5000, an excellent mid-level detector etc etc. I believe they have stuffed their advertising up, it is almost reading that if you want consistent small gold (and bigger gold will come with the SDC - no worries there), buy the SDC. There does not seem to be any level of advertising aimed at me - the 4500 owner looking to upgrade.

The cynic in me says this is all a ploy to clear out the 5000s (some of the sales deals are interesting) prior to a new GPX. There have been rumours (always rumours) of a new GPX.

In summary:

1. Have Minelab overstated the case for the SDC?
2. Have they placed the 5000 in a position where its original small gold claims (fine gold) are not perhaps as good as they stated?
3. What is the incentive for me to upgrade to a 5000 when after a trade-in price, I am still no better off and in fact adding the SDC would be about the same, maybe a bit more.
4. Is the advertising aimed at deflating their own product, rather than taking on the ATX?

Interested to hear any comments - I will not now be upgrading to a 5000 anytime soon and intend to take a SDC for a run over some old patches.

 

[Goldtarget]

I couldn't help but think with the "super" detector in the works the sdc might be a taste of part of the package? Excellent post.

 

[gcause]

I got to use an SDC at Warwick two weeks ago.

I think you are right they will be flooding the used market in the next 12 months as people upgrade to the 5000.

All I can say is I will be keeping my 5000 and my SD2200D, don't think you will find a better combination on the market today.

 

[Shelton]

Another question is how deffective is SDC 2300....

 

[condor22]

Loamer,

I have the 5000, I upgraded from a Eureka Gold, so I've missed a few steps Pretty well all my detecting will be in the VIC GT.

I have 8" and 11" Commander monos, 11" and 15" x 12" (2nd hand) Commander DDs and an 18" x 12" Coiltek Mono for the 5000. I have toyed with the idea of getting a Nugget Finder 8" x 6" mono (which is similar in area to 6.75 dia) and about as small as it gets for the 5000.

I have read a fair bit on the SDC2300 re its capability on the small stuff and the waterproof gives it an edge in the shallows. I am wavering on buying one.

I suppose I should look at why. So here goes; My wife on rare occasions may want to use a detector, but she is physically limited in using one for very long and is unable to dig. So I thought I'ld look for something for her. I thought I would then have something that may compliment the 5000.

or

Am I kidding myself, that instead of spending $4,000 to do little more than I can already and instead spend $990 on something like the X-Terra?

I'm asking for your opinion, so say it like it is, please

Condor

PS I traded the Eureka on the 5000

 

[Reeks]

On minelabs website they actually write that it will find gold the 5000 can't.
To me that means 5000 sales are tapering off, and Minelab are getting alot of guys who already own the 5000 to buy this new detector.

The gpx5100 will come out, have the same capabilities on small gold as the sdc and also be waterproof.
Then every bloke with a 5000 will upgrade.
Some people with both 2300's and 4500/5000 will part with their two machines and buy the one that can do both.

Does anyone know if the F3 is much different to an sdc?

 

[Guest]

Does anyone know if the F3 is much different to an sdc?

According to Minelab the only similarities are the externals. The internals have been completely re-engineered. This makes sense as the SDC2300 is based on the new MPF technology (Multi Period Fast timing). This basically allows faster switching between transmit (tx) & receive (rx) detector signals. This is what allows the SDC to pick up small gold that other PI detectors miss.

 

[Guest]

Good post Loamer! It does make you wonder what Minelab's thinking is? To me the SDC will not only make people with a GPX 4/4500 think twice about upgrading to the 5000 but even people with SD & GP series will be thinking hard about whether or not to do it, especially with the current SDC marketing. I know if I had a sweet old SD2200D or GP3500 that was still picking up gold I would definitely look at permanently attaching a large coil to it & seriously considering the SDC rather than a full upgrade to the GPX5000.
I think Minelab know more than us mere mortals & the campaign is most likely a carefully considered marketing ploy designed around the further planned releases of a new low cost machine & of course the next big gun, which should have the new MPF technology plus some other goodies - or at least we live in hope that it really is going to be a huge move forward. It's been long enough.

 

[condor22]

There seems to me, to be one constant in all of this;

Whilst detectors are getting more capable of finding gold - gold is getting harder to find

Cynical, but true.

The mathematician in me concludes the best way to make money from gold prospecting is to design and sell detectors :lol:

 

[Guest]

Hence the need for better detectors.
The richest people in gold prospecting have always sold the tools :lol:

 

[Westaus]

My thoughts on new technology is leave ver 1 alone. Take Ver 2 as this is the one that has fixed up/most all of the issues (possible introduced some new ones) Ver 3 is then made with extra bells and whistles but generally made cheaper as well. I wait for the next generation to go through and do as stated.

Take digital cameras. Very similar analogies.

I could almost guarantee you will see a new generation GPX, perhaps a GPX6000 with all new electronics top of the line flag ship within the next 12 months. You will then see a SDC2350 or SDC2400 which will be version 2. Either way at the moment I am waiting, the next 12 months you will see something new and a whole new type of detectors coming through and ways to look for PM's. The GPX 5000 was released around 2010. In tech terms that makes it very overdue for a new model to enter the market.

Just my $0.02c worth.

Finally used the SDC a few weeks back for a few days and bar some niggling little issues, it seems to be a very capable detector. In saying that I am going away in 4 weeks this time to the middle of no where, guess which detector I am hiring to take with me ?

 

[Roscoe]

I own a Gpx 5000 and i have tried to use fine gold up here in North Queensland and i have been unable to use this timing because of constant EMI problems. I would like to run fine gold timings, but i find myself going back to enhance or most of the time to sensitive smooth. Personally i found this annoying, because i bought this detector over say a used gpx 4500 for the advantage of it having the fine gold timing.

Loamer, To answer your question. I would stick with your 4500 and buy a SDC 2300 to use for fine gold and this detector seems to be more immune to the effects of EMI, which the 5000 struggles with in its fine gold timing. I think you hit the nail on the head loamer in your question #2.

 

[Ben78]

The way this SDC is going I have a suspicion on why it works so well.

Timings

Problem with interchangeable coil machines is that you have to set the timings to a reasonable level to allow manufacturing variance and cost in a range of coils. An 18" coil will not work at 8us delay for example, neither will a cheaply built coil of any size. But to get super small gold you have to have a short delay - even 4 or 6us! In the SDC I suspect that because the coil is fixed they are able to control the coil specs to be able to effectively run super short delays without the problems associated with people sticking and old random coil on it. Control the coil, get super small gold.

 

[Heatho]

I own a Gpx 5000 and i have tried to use fine gold up here in North Queensland and i have been unable to use this timing because of constant EMI problems. I would like to run fine gold timings, but i find myself going back to enhance or most of the time to sensitive smooth. Personally i found this annoying, because i bought this detector over say a used gpx 4500 for the advantage of it having the fine gold timing.

Loamer, To answer your question. I would stick with your 4500 and buy a SDC 2300 to use for fine gold and this detector seems to be more immune to the effects of EMI, which the 5000 struggles with in its fine gold timing. I think you hit the nail on the head loamer in your question #2.

I've found exactly the same in some areas due to hot ground and EMI.

I'd keep the 4500 Loamer and just get an SDC, sell both when the new flagship model comes out. SDC is like having a super Fine/Gold timing that works well in the worst conditions.

Makes me wonder whether ML tuned out the smallest stuff on the GPX models so you can cover more ground and get bigger Gold, imagine trying to pinpoint and dig the smallest shotgun pellets with an 11" coil or bigger.... it would be pretty difficult. Could have been tuned out to leave room for future detectors to still find Gold also......

The SDC can be really slow going, and will find the tiniest bits of junk but also the tiniest Gold, I'd say it's not much good for covering large areas quickly but for getting Gold in known areas it's great. It pinpoints great also.

 

[Guest]

Loamer,

It appears to me that you are wrestling whether to buy an SDC2300?

I don't believe any marketing from a manufacturer, the marketing department is doing a good job though!

I do believe other members of this forum that have bought one and have found their first ever gold.

I started with the XTerra 705 but felt that a PI machine would increase my chances of getting that first nugget find.

$6500 for a GPX5000 is a lot to justify and these machines have scoured the gold fields. My mental account was in the red.

My thoughts are that the SDC2300 will find the smaller bits that have yet to be discovered because now we have the technology to detect these sub grammers.

Other advantages are it folds up for travel, waterproof, simple noise cancel and ground balancing. My boys think its cool, they say its like unpacking a military weapon (too much Play Station) And for bling you can never go past Carbon Fibre!

I have another use in mind but like the GPX6000 Im keeping it under wraps.

As humans we must justify or have a positive mental account to purchase anything. My mental account of intrinsic valve is in the green for me and only for me. I could be way off the mark. Ill let you know when we get back from Windeyer after this weekend.

If I owned a GPX3500 or up I could not mentally balance a SDC2300 purchase as well?

Cheers

 

[loamer]

Excellent feed-back, advice and comments - very much appreciated. Yes, I am procrastinating and to be honest, have seen and heard all this before about the latest and greatest. The only time I have ever fallen hook-line and sinker was upgrading from the ML2000 to the ML2200D but only after I witnessed first hand what the 2200D was all about and if you remember the early days in WA and Vic the 2000 itself was a jaw dropper, then followed by the 2200D running over the same ground -amazing results on trashy ground but this was on big deeper gold the old VLFs could not touch. The 3500 almost got me but not quite as much. I still procrastinated over the 4500 and tested it to death before making up my mind - I am very reluctant to trade up just yet (even after all these years of the 5000), just thought the SDC as a stand-alone might, just might, be a good additional tool. The 5000 running a big NF mono was almost a deal sealer - amazing results on very slight responses on good, deep reef gold that the 4500 slightly responded to which in hindsight would have pulled me up but the 5000 was a definite 'dig here'.

So, where does this leave me? I have now seen some second hand SDCs come up for sale (almost as new prices -c'mon guys, take off the GST) but have arranged a trial run in a week or two. I have several patches that have small gold in situ - the reasons its there? Ran a 6" mono on the 4500, constant small gold, but not to be a braggart, it was super boring/frustrating running a coil that small over a big area for reasons I have explained elsewhere (8" was too variable- inconsistent). I just think a purpose made 8" coil with the SDCs timings may just do the trick.

 

[Redfin]

Mate go out now to a few old patches and go over again with a few combinations, then when the hire machine is due do the same area.
I am sure it will make up your mind for you.
4500 = big NF and the SDC = a very good combo.
That leaves the 2200 for the lads.

I am tempted myself but renovating 2 places atm so more $ to be made there.
BUT, might have a moment of madness, maybe.

We both know but new is the way to go.
Too much rubbish around = http://www_alibaba_com/showroom/sdc-2300.html

 

[Reeks]

Why don't Coil manufacturers make a 8 inch mono with anti interference shielding?

 

[loamer]

Redfin - agree 100%.

The boys love the 2200 - bit heavy after a while but if they even think of whinging, they get a Pop - 'go back to the ute and grab a cup of harden the fxxxk up'.

 

[nuggetino]

I also have a 4500, bought used because I couldn't justify the extra dollars for a 5000. The fine gold timings are an improvement but depth capabilities on anything above tiny tiddlers is endlessly debatable which to me at least indicates the 4500 and 5000 are extremely close in performance to the point where the operator has more of an influence as to how effective these two machines are than the technology itself.
I'm rather chaffed about the release of the SC2300 for this reason even if it is a more expensive upgrade than selling the 4500 and buying a used 5000. If the SDC really does allow unprecedented depth capability it will pay for itself or quickly even in small gold. I must admit I've been following any thread,post,you tube clip on this detector with great interest.

I speculate minelab may not introduce an upgraded GPX for another 12 months while the sales flow for the sdc2300. The sdc2300 will give any current owners a lot of time in the field to clean up before the next super detector is released. Assuming a new GPX will more than likely cost 50% extra over the sdc there are going to be plenty of people who can't afford one when they hit the market and those people will still want to bridge the performance gap to a new super detector. I see a lot of used sdc2300's being sold up in a hurry but also plenty of demand for them (if it really is that good). I SDC will hold it's value quite well assuming nothing better comes out at a cheaper price. A reasonable cost recuperation at upgrade seems in order.

I think I may just jump on the sdc bandwagon in a month or two. Still too early for me to draw conclusions on it's performance thus far.

The big money is in selling detecting equipment but the big fun is in detecting...