NSW Highbanking - what is the current state of play?

And who would you be making reference to in regards to the forum member with some type of "agenda"?
If it is me, yes you will find me involved in discussions on crown land etc. on 2 or 3 forum's max. I am only a member of 3 so it will be no more - hardly every one in Australia.
Initially my posts on this topic were to try & get some info/insight from experienced forum members, not to start debate, but I soon found that nobody could tell me much with any certainty on any forum. I then spent countless hours researching & doing groundwork myself including contacting State & Local Government departments, reading various Acts/Regulations/Advisory documents etc. I am now very confident that what I post in regards to this topic is good information. If you wish to research my comments I think you will find the same.
In no way have I intended to create friction or unhealthy debate but rather tried to find or provide some factual information on what can be/is a very confusing area for a lot of people - newbies & experienced alike.
If you choose to ignore posted signs & tourist brochures highlighting area restrictions good for you. None of my business - do as you please. I am only trying to provide information that may prevent unwanted attention for those who would like to try to do the right thing.
The picture Shivan has posted appears to indicate using a motorised pump would be fine in public access areas apart from the Swamp Creek & Old Chimney fossicking areas. Use one if you like - as I have said, up to the individual.
With that I will post no further on this thread & refrain from commenting on future discussion so as to not continue my "agenda" of trying to supply facts to those that may wish to know their rights/responsibilities.
P.s just because I post these laws/rules doesn't mean I agree with them. In fact I would like to see a lot of them changed. Damn - I do have an agenda.

Mbasko your comments are welcome to me! Don't let a bad day ruin your input as it is very much welcomed and im sure I speak for most here! Please stick around as its a very informative discussion mate.

Been following this thread with interest and a lot of good info is coming to light. Discussion and debate is of benefit to all members, BUT, lets keep it all on the civil side of the fence guys. We don't like to see members making accusations against each other or the topic becoming heated personal opinion.

For all parties involved who have gone to lengths for the benefit of the members....keep up the good work, and lets keep it friendly.

mbasko, hope you don't refrain from commenting as your input has much merit.

Cheers Wal.

Mbasko,
I am certainly not accusing you I just needed to know what your intentions are/were...now you have been totally up front..I aploid you for your work it just seemed that you were attempting to say that I was trying to circumnavigate the guidlines.
I have never broken the rules or will ever.

A little back ground on me and maybe you will see why I am passionate about doing the right thing.

27 years as an officer of the crown. Retired SAS Senior Assistant Superintendent NSW corrective services.
20 years as a professional FireFighter FRNSW present Deputy Captain. 27 years working for the Government so I am by no means a novice when it comes to dealing with government agencies.

I have never entered a property or entered on to land that has signage or fences bloking access.

All that I have been attempting to do is ease peoples minds in relation to the the Nundle situation.

no other location just Nundle.

As you have stated and I totally agree every area has different scenarios.

Nundle has one major issue NUNDLE GUY everyone is worried that this pest will swoop on them leading to fines court cases equipment forfeited to the crown and used as evidence against them.
Shivan has supplied a map that clearly shows the designated areas set aside for fossicking. I know these area some will not.
At the Gathering I have no problems with taking people to these locations so they are not wasting time looking.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone on PA my apologies
People that know me know that I will keep going until I get the correct answer or advice.
My past career history dictates that.
No more from me.
Please PM me in the future regarding any information on my previous posts.
Cheers
TheSmithy...!

One of my mates I do almost all my prospecting with has a friend up in Canberra who was down over Christmas and went out prospecting for a couple of days.

This friend is now wanting to take up prospecting and has been looking into the NSW rules and regs of which this is what he found.

http://www.resources.nsw.gov.au/__d.../A-Guide-to-Fossicking-in-New-South-Wales.PDF

It says in the document (bottom of page 2, top of page 3)

What techniques can be used for fossicking?

Fossicking on land or waters that may be subject to native title is restricted by the terms of the Native
Title Act 1993 (Commonwealth). Land subject to native title can be taken to be any land other than
freehold land, land held under perpetual Western Lands leases and some specific leasehold and
reserved lands.

Fossicking can be done on land or waters subject to native title using hand held implements, which
include picks, shovels, hammers, sieves, shakers and gold pans. However, regardless of the
implements used, no excavation is permitted.

On land or waters that are not subject to native title, fossicking is not restricted to hand held
implements, but power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,
excavation or processing.

Firstly what exactly is defined as "under native title"

Secondly what does "no excavation" mean? Isn't digging a hole a form of excavation? When does digging a hole stop being digging a hole and become excavation? This seems a bit of a grey area.

Thirdly it clearly says power operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance, excavation or processing. So other than obviously ruling out hydraulic sluicing and dredging it also appears to read that you cannot run power-operated equipment ie: a pump, to process material ie: as in through a highbanker.

I myself haven't ventured up to NSW prospecting just yet, but was hoping to do so over the next 12 months so clarification on this would even be useful to me, but I was hoping someone might be able to offer some insight so I can pass this information on!

I know there are plenty of very active and very helpful forum members who prospect around NSW using highbankers so this is where the confusion is stemming from!

thanks
Adam

"On land or waters that are not subject to native title, fossicking is not restricted to hand held
implements, but power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,
excavation or processing."

I take this to mean that you cannot use machinery, backhoe, dredge etc to remove soil and gravel from a creek. It must be dug by hand. Then you can use whatever means to process the material. Eg, a highbanker is only washing, processing you material, not digging it out of the ground.

Ramjet said:

"On land or waters that are not subject to native title, fossicking is not restricted to hand held
implements, but power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,
excavation or processing."

I take this to mean that you cannot use machinery, backhoe, dredge etc to remove soil and gravel from a creek. It must be dug by hand. Then you can use whatever means to process the material. Eg, a highbanker is only washing, processing you material, not digging it out of the ground.

Click to expand...

Is a pump considered "power-operated equipment" ???

And wouldn't running it through a highbanker be considered "processing" of which "power-operated equipment" cannot be used for ???

Elbow, The pump is only moving water from "A to B". The highbanker is processing the wash. Cheers John.

calala said:

Elbow, The pump is only moving water from "A to B". The highbanker is processing the wash. Cheers John.

Click to expand...

Ok I think what your saying is sort of making sense.

The pump is "power-operated equipment" however the pump itself is not processing the material, it is simply moving water from point A to point B

The highbanker is processing the material and as the highbanker is not "power-operated equipment" it is ok to use.

I guess my assumption was that you can't really operate a highbanker without a pump, so by virtue of needing to attach a pump to a highbanker to make it useable it would then become "power-operated equipment"

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2597&p=1
A past discussion on water pumps for NSW. May be of help - may not. I'm staying out of this one :lol:

It is a topic that seems to create confusion

Elbow you can use a high banker by bucket if you wish, which means you don't need a pump at all. It can be a bit hard to get your head around the thinking. lol

My understanding is unless you are in state forest the banker is ok, except in queensland, and you cannot leave an open hole more than 1 metre deep above flood line, and if digging in the bank, just smooth out so it doesnt look so much like a minning operation. I know that the majority will walk a fair way up and down the rivers, most the time without knowing you are on private property. So keep in mind not only fossicking/banking rights but also a couple of complaints from property owners and the fun is over. Excavator, backhoe out of the question anywhere, unless you break a deal with a property owner, then your laughing

No pumps for processing, the high banker does the processing the pump just supplies water.. That's how I see it but I'm still worried the government will throw the book at us after all how we see it and how they see it is two different things.. I'd love to find out for sure. I guess it just depends on the authority that you run into at the time..

devils advocate

A highbanker "without" water flow processes how exactly??

The water is a vital part of the "processing" process is it not?

power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,
excavation or processing........

It seems quite obvious dosn't it?

devils advocate out

mmmm first time ive heard this for NSW....... thats reads pretty clear to me no pump for your highbanker or your using mechanical equipment to process.

OK,

As quoted,
What techniques cannot be used for fossicking ?

Neither explosives nor dredges can be used in fossicking.
Power-operated equipment cannot be used on land or in waters for surface disturbance, excavation or
processing. Power operated equipment includes mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, battery and
electrical equipment or machinery.

Way that I understand this is you cannot use any form of mechanical machine to excavate material for processing.
The pump under the mining/water guidelines is covered for a certain amount of water that can be used.

Tathradj said:

OK,

As quoted,
What techniques cannot be used for fossicking ?

Neither explosives nor dredges can be used in fossicking.
Power-operated equipment cannot be used on land or in waters for surface disturbance, excavation or
processing. Power operated equipment includes mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, battery and
electrical equipment or machinery.

Way that I understand this is you cannot use any form of mechanical machine to excavate material for processing.
The pump under the mining/water guidelines is covered for a certain amount of water that can be used.

Click to expand...

Hi All
Well to me it looks like NSW "Prospectors" are in a very similar position to us in QLD

Tathradj from your Quote, take note of the 2 area's I have bolded.
1st says - surface disturbance, excavation or processing, please note the word OR.
2nd says - mechanical machine to excavate material for processing.

I believe you have made a fundamental mistake that a lot of people make you have read it out of context & substituted for in place of or.
I myself have just realised that what I thought was Legal in QLD was infact not.

The way I read what has been outlined here is that the use of a Highbanker used in conjunction with a PUMP is NOT legal in NSW, to clarify "Without the addition of a pump to impart velocity energy to the water entering the "Highbanker" the highbanker would be useless, the "Pump" being a mechanical device is required to effectively operate your banker. This is quite clearly "Processing" material with the use of a mechanical device.

Welcome to world of "Criminal" small time prospecting.

Disgruntled!!!
Lee

Ok so I can see how using a pressurised spray bar to brake up clay is processing using a pump but if the pump simply puts water in the hopper then gravity and the riffle system does the processing is it still illegal? There must be ways around this... What if the pump don't actually attach to the high banker, like say the pump discharged into a water storage drum that then supplies the water to the high banker or worst case is there a mining permit we can get to cover high banking small scale??

The Acts & Regulations state this (as the governing, legally enforceable legislation):

New South Wales Consolidated Regulations:

WATER MANAGEMENT (GENERAL) REGULATION 2011 - SCHEDULE 5
SCHEDULE 5 Exemptions
(Clauses 18 and 39)
Part 1 - Access licence exemptions

7 Prospecting or fossicking

Any person lawfully engaged in prospecting or fossicking for minerals or petroleum under the Mining Act 1992 or the Petroleum (Onshore) Act 1991 -in relation to:

(a) the taking of water required for such prospecting or fossicking pursuant to a lease, licence, mineral claim or environmental assessment permit under the Mining Act 1992 or a petroleum title under the Petroleum (Onshore) Act 1991 (an "authority" ), up to a maximum of 3 megalitres for all such prospecting or fossicking pursuant to each such authority in any water year, and

(b) the taking of up to 3 megalitres of water required for all other such prospecting or fossicking in any water year.

Also:

www.legislation.nsw.gov.au:

Mining Act 1992 No 29
Current version for 11 January 2013 to date (accessed 8 September 2013 at 15:06)

Part 2 Division 1 Section 12

12 Fossicking

(1) For the purposes of this or any other Act or law, it is declared that fossicking is a lawful activity.

www.legislation.nsw.gov.au:

Mining Regulation 2010

Part 2 Prospecting and mining generally

12 Fossicking

(2) A person must not carry out work that includes any of the following activities for the purpose of fossicking:
(c) the use of power-operated equipment for the purpose of surface disturbance, excavation or processing on any land,

(3) In this clause:
power-operated equipment means any equipment powered by mechanical or electrical means.

Basically:
The water pump delivers the water that is allowable to be used under the Water Management Regulation 2011 to the highbanker which is a static, non-powered piece of fossicking equipment. The water delivered is in no way "powering" anything & certainly not by any mechanical or electrical means.

Do whatever you are comfortable with but the guidelines are poorly written & should be used as just that "guidelines".
To me the legally enforceable legislation is quite clear. You are exempt from requiring a license for 3meg of water & even with a pump supplying water the highbanker is not electrically or mechanically powered.