Theft By Finding?

So I have heard from a bunch of folk about laws regarding "Theft by finding".

For example: You dig up a 2 karat diamond ring on the beach worth a few or more $grand... do you have to take it to the police station? make an add in the paper?
and if you try and sell it you can get busted?

Has anyone heard of this?

Found this link but there doesn't seem to be modern examples!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

Yes you must take finds of that nature i.e. Jewellery, gold bars, wallets, etc to the police or you can be charged. Always get a receipt from the officer and always take photos of items and note exact location of find. If after 90 days no one claims the item then it is yours. Lots of info on this on other gold forums with examples of people being charged or threatened with being charged of theft.

gcause said:

Yes you must take finds of that nature i.e. Jewellery, gold bars, wallets, etc to the police or you can be charged. Always get a receipt from the officer and always take photos of items and note exact location of find. If after 90 days no one claims the item then it is yours. Lots of info on this on other gold forums with examples of people being charged or threatened with being charged of theft.

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Yes better safe than sorry.

Hope this helps.

Its conceivable that every person reading this has probably been a victim of having something taken from them. Theft is such a common occurrence in high density communities that when something does go missing, most people dont even bother with reporting the item stolen to the police. Well, it does depend on what it is, for example, if it was the car that was stolen, there probably would be a report, but if it was, say, your car stereo. Its probably a lost cause. So, yes, something will inevitably be taken from someone, somewhere at anytime. It could be happening to you right now as youre reading this piece. Keep your eyes peeled.

Stealing, although a regular feature of society is in some ways a misunderstood crime with subtle complications. Those who are outside of the law might not have a complete grasp of the various elements that constitute the crime of stealing.

How is stealing defined in the law?

Basically, stealing is taking something that belongs to someone else, and keeping it without the intention of returning the item. Remember, stealing is a conscious effort to permanently deprive someone of their property. So, dont make your way to the nearest police station to accuse your friend of theft because they forgot to return your super special edition of the Star Wars trilogy DVD set. Your friend didnt have the intention to deprive you of your DVD set. They just plain forgot. Plus, you consented to them taking your DVD set, which is the other element of larceny as spelled out in Division 5 of the Crimes Act in New South Wales.

In Queensland, stealing from a shop of goods valued at $150 or less is a regulatory offence as defined in s 5 of the Regulatory Offences Act 1985. Perhaps the most notable aspect of the s 5 regulatory offences is that the s 36(2) defences in the QLD Criminal Code 1899, arent available to offences committed under the Regulatory Offences Act. Notably, the onus is also on the defendant to prove their innocence on the balance of probabilities. For other stealing offences in Queensland can be found at Part 6, Division 1, Chapter 36 of the Criminal Code.

For crimes of theft in Victoria, just like NSW and QLD, the act of stealing is a crime if the intention is to permanently deprive someone of their property without consent. However, under s 73(b) of the Crimes Act 1958 VIC, an individual is not guilty of theft if the appropriation of an item would have been allowed if the person knew of it and the surrounding circumstances.

Are all stealing offences the same?

In a word, yes. All larcenies are treated the same in the eyes of the law with no differentiating between the nature of what was taken according to s 116 of the Crimes Act in New South Wales and Victoria. In contrast, Queensland has a clear value distinction in relation to theft.

What if someone steals something, but wants to return it?

So someone has stolen something, or money, with the intention of returning the item or replacing the cash. Thats okay, right? No, its still not a defence under s 118 of the NSW Criminal Code. Its an understandable belief for most people that if theyve taken something, and return the item or cash, they wont be in legal trouble, however, under the law in NSW, that is still no defence and that individual can still be charged with larceny.

Finally, stealing cattle or any other animals is a crime

Yep, you read correctly, the theft of cattle is considered a crime of larceny, as well as killing cattle with the intent to steal. Cattle rustlers can also face up to 14 years in prison as well for the offence in NSW, while both QLD and VIC have their own animal stealing provisions.

Larceny aka stealing, rolling, theft, knocking off etc can cause a lot of legal trouble for people. Borrowing something without the knowledge and consent of the owner can be viewed as an offence under larceny, which can lead to people getting into legal hot water and facing court when they didnt think they had a crime to answer. The law can be quite tricky, and the crime of larceny highlights this with the various elements that constitute the crime, hence, why its wise to seek help if youre ever in trouble for larceny (stealing).

Bob.

PS I am not a solicitor I was sent this by my son who has a doctorate in forensic accountancy(fraud recovery).

interesting discussion, are police always going to do the right thing? I recall the Sargent of a police station where i grew up being openly corrupt and after finally being removed from the police some years down the track they found a hydroponic setup growing weed in the roof. true story, this is obviously an extreme situation however the old saying goes there's no honor amongst thieves.

Personally if I found something that ($500+) valuable I would hand it in but I don't know that I would feel obligated but i would feel great if someone lost that item and was able to have it returned.

I was in at gold buyers melbourne last week and a lady was selling a gold bracelet, the gold was worth $4k the diamonds $20 compare $20 worth of diamonds to the sentimental value.

A finder of any items that may have been owned by another person ie; ring, bracelet, watch, boat, car, hat, shirt, kayak etc (there is no monitory value in relation to cost of an item) must make all reasonable attempts to locate an owner. A reasonable attempt to locate an owner is to hand the item into the Police. Ask for a receipt from the officer when handing it in. You do not need to do anything after handing it to police, other than ticking off the days on the calendar. In NSW the item will be held by Police for 28 days after which time the item can be legally collected by the finder if no person have made any claim on it. This includes cash. The only thing that can not be claimed by a finder are items such as credit cards, passports etc.

willo1 said:

A finder of any items that may have been owned by another person ie; ring, bracelet, watch, boat, car, hat, shirt, kayak etc (there is no monitory value in relation to cost of an item) must make all reasonable attempts to locate an owner. A reasonable attempt to locate an owner is to hand the item into the Police. Ask for a receipt from the officer when handing it in. You do not need to do anything after handing it to police, other than ticking off the days on the calendar. In NSW the item will be held by Police for 28 days after which time the item can be legally collected by the finder if no person have made any claim on it. This includes cash. The only thing that can not be claimed by a finder are items such as credit cards, passports etc.

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Hi guys.

Not quite jewelery, coins etc, but my young bloke found an almost brand new Stihl, Wood Boss chainsaw in tall grass on the side of the road. No ID markings on the saw at all, and in obviously almost new condition.

He wasn't so keen to take my advice and hand it in to the cops, but he realized it was the right thing to do. At least if the person who lost it, made the effort to contact the police, they would have got it back.

Anyway, as was suggested earlier, he got a receipt, and after the waiting period, (I'm not sure how long as it happened a fair while ago ), we went back to the cop shop, found no one had claimed it, and applied to take ownership of it.

The young fella got another receipt, which basically stated it was now his and off home we went.

Anyway, the best part of the story is, six months down the track, my lad borrowed some money off me and decided to pay me back with the chainsaw. So now, I'm the proud owner of $900 worth of chainsaw. Young fella never used it. The cost to me, the $170 he owed me,,, sweet.

He learnt a good lesson, I got a bargain,, and it was legal,,, sweet.

Now, where's a good ring bearing beach,,,,,

Cheers, Ron.

I found an engagement ring, a while back, which I handed to the local law and got it back after a few months.
The copper told me that you can be charged for simply pocketing a find, called 'Theft by Finding'.

Now if I uncover a goodie while detecting, and pocket it, is that not the same thing?

At what point do items found become the instant property of the finder and have no legal requirement regarding
handing said find in?

good point there mozzie...I guess jewellery etc. can be identified if handed in ..coins? well anyone could say yes that's my $2 I lost..hard to positively identify that it is though..maybe we should hand in all the junk we find as well?

I think anything readily identifiable or of significant value like wedding bands, engagement rings, wallets, engraved jewellery etc, should be handed in to try and source the original owner, cheap jewellery and coins I'd give a miss. Technically most detectorists would be guilty of theft by finding if keeping jewellery. Many people have the view if you purchase an expensive detector, spend countless hours detecting, then it should be their item to keep, even if the law doesn't agree with it.

If the police were so concerned over the issue, they would only have to scour these forums and pick on every single person who has a valuable find that hasn't made an effort to source the original owner. Remember, there may be rewards posted for such lost items, so not all is lost (so to speak).

The law I believe has a clause. Which reads something like this An item that is common like coins & has no Identifying marks can be kept & value is small. Not sure of exact wording.
So not much we find needs to be hand in unless you are finding engagement rings or similar regularly.

Stealing by finding in most states;
The courts consider lost property as still belonging to the owner. Abandoned property, however, no longer belongs to the owner. One example is this not being so is, if the owner or tennant of a house places an old but working TV on the footpath during a hard rubbish collection, are they abandoning it? Can you take it?

The answer in this case is no-no. By placing it on the footpath they are actually passing ownership to their local council for collection. They have deliberately placed it in the location for further action.

My interpretation is, that if something is lost the act was not deliberate, it was accidental. The owner may then try to find it and if without success, then leave the location with no intent to return, this would then constitute abandonment.

So, how do we know if the intend to return, I guess if a ring looks like it's been there for some time, the owner probably isn't coming back. In the case of coins, how would the owner be able to prove it's theirs anymore than you say it's yours.

I guess there are other things to consider, if you intend to keep the item and never try to on sell it, who's going to know? That's then a choice of concience. However if it's valuable and you want to sell it, the safest option is to hand it in to the police, they will ask that if no one comes forward to claim it, do you want it? If you do then in most instances it's legally yours after 3 months and there's a police record to that effect. If someone claims it then be happy you made someone else even happier.

If I found a $100 note blowing in the wind, I would probably keep it, because finding the owner would be nigh impossible, but if I found someone's wallet, purse or pay packet, I would hand it in.

And, I have found all 3 of these over the years, handed them in and been given a small reward from 3 battlers for having done so. Have I found loose notes blowing in the wind? I'm not saying.